Traveller 5E

[nats]

To me this Traveller 5E sounds little more than Starfinder with about as much connection to the Traveller game as Starfinder has. For example - the Psion class. In the Traveller that I know psionics are frowned upon, there is an option for characters to go looking for psionic training but it's a dodgy prospect finding anywhere to ge trained. I accept that this is more related to the 3rd Imperium. But without the 3rd Imperium setting is the 5E game going to have anything to do with Traveller at all? Other than the name?

 

[Sigtrygg]

You mean other than life path character generation

the same technology tropes

the same setting design tools

the same subsector/sector design

all they are doing is changing the situation resolution mechanic to d20, the world design, ship design, technology paradigm are all as per Traveller back in 77...

back when there was no Imperium...

 

[shirgall]

The reality is we known next to nothing about it other than what they have shown. And what they have shown has been uneven (those minis in particular are terrible) and nothing is going to ship for a year and a half.

 

[Endie]

To me this Traveller 5E sounds little more than Starfinder with about as much connection to the Traveller game as Starfinder has. For example - the Psion class. In the Traveller that I know psionics are frowned upon, there is an option for characters to go looking for psionic training but it's a dodgy prospect finding anywhere to ge trained. I accept that this is more related to the 3rd Imperium. But without the 3rd Imperium setting is the 5E game going to have anything to do with Traveller at all? Other than the name?

If I may take the liberty of summing up your posts in this thread:

 

[Libris]

Well, I’ve backed it. I’m not really bothered if it’s Traveller as we know it or not. I just like science fiction RPGs. To me Traveller isn’t about the LBB or 2D6 it’s the technological groundwork that the system lays down - jump drive, no FTL coms, battledress, grav vehicles, fusion guns and a myriad of other bits and pieces. Though, to be fair, I do enjoy the 3rd Imperium setting.

As for the campaign itself, I realise the pledge levels are unexpectedly high and that is unfortunate as it will (has) upset a lot of people - “It’s a money grab”, or “It’s just a pre-order”, have been touted more than once and, so what? They’ve seen an opportunity and have run with it. The pre-order model has been intrinsic to most crowd funding platforms as a lower risk more accurate business plan for quite some time. Sure, some will fail, that’s the nature of crowd funding, but the half dozen or so that I personally have seen fail or under deliver have mainly been guilty of under pricing their pledge levels and simply running out of money.

“You don’t know if it be any good?” True, but that’s actually the reason to buy it. If I don’t read it I won’t know. Sure I could wait and read a review but the number of games and books - mainly books - I’ve bought based on a review that turned out to be not to my taste would eclipse the highest pledge levels several times over! Similarly, I’ve picked up games and books - mainly games this time - where subsequent reviews are poor or trash them and I’m thinking they’re talking about a different game.

 

[Vormaerin]

It would be nice if there was a way to get the books without all the accessories like dice, minis, and VTT adaptations. But I imagine they probably need to get a certain amount of uptake on that to make it cost effective, so opting out is not a real choice.

 

[nats]

If I may take the liberty of summing up your posts in this thread:
View attachment 7883

Lol that would be funny but for the fact you dont know if you are going to have any fun at all with this system because there is nothing on show. There is no information at all on any of it.

It's supported by Mongoose and Marc Miller. Why are these supporting it? Because they are getting a share of the profits presumably or have been paid a fee. They are providing a heck of a lot of credibility to this product. But do they have any say in the quality of the product they are supporting? I would like to know what the arrangement is here and how Marc and Mongoose are involved with it, if at all.

Most Kickstarter games have at least a reasonably well thought out game concept and design, that has already been playtested and fairly pre-designed with at least an outline of the books that are planned and some that have already been partially pre-written. This has shown nothing. Just a load of book covers and sentence written about the setting, which sounds like it was written yesterday for all the thought that went into it.

Remember Spinward Traveller anyone ??? Getting the same vibes here.

So for this product its pretty certain that nothing has been written yet. It looks like the whole thing is just an idea. That is what you are buying into. And that is a pretty huge risk. But then I guess you have to go into these things expecting you will lose all of your money and get nothing much in return. So expect that.

 

[gilthy]

I would have preferred they bring back GURPS Traveller using GURPS4. At least the GURPS rules fit better with Traveller.

... but GURPS is not "the world's most popular rules".

 

[gilthy]

My biggest issue is the lack of finished material being shown. Even some of the art is from Mongoose books (maybe most? I didn't check all of it, but I recognised some pieces and managed to find it in existing Mongoose products). Nothing wrong with that (assuming it's all above table with Mongoose), but if I'm paying what they're asking for new books, I assume I'm getting new art and new words. And I would like a sample of both text and layout, get me some tables of content, page counts, things like that. If that's on the Backerkit page, I've overlooked it.

The bit about The CivX Primer seems to suggest it's a new setting (so not the Third Imperium).

It's also very unclear to me on how they will adapt the 5e rules to Traveller (or Traveller to the 5e rules). Will the players play Warriors and Warlocks? Rogues and Clerics? I'd guess not? But they're mapping Traveller careers to 5e Backgrounds...

Looking at the images for Ship Tokens (from the "mystery bags"... who thinks mystery bags are a good idea? And who needs more dice... ), those look like the "standard" Third Imperium starships.

Anyways, not backing this, too expensive, how VAT and import duties are handled is unclear.

 

[Vormaerin]

I'm just bewildered by the 'strange to me' opinions people have of how kickstarters work. Most kickstarters do not have more materials pre-done than this. Some of them do have an alpha pdf or preview packet, but that's more often with products completely new that need additional "what is this" information. Or need to establish that it is likely you'll actually release a product, because you have no track record. Or need to be sure themselves that they will actually finish before they put it up on offer. But that doesn't apply to everyone. Or necessarily to most people.

People know what D&D is. They know what Traveller is. This spells out what the books contents are going to be, if not much in the way of details about said content beyond general topics covered.

As far as the author goes, on what basis is there to attack their reputation? He's been in the industry since forever, so he's not clueless about what goes into making this stuff or what it costs. They have a bunch of successful kickstarters. Individuals need to complete one product before they start the next, but businesses (and this is an established game company doing this) need to have rolling product lines.

They have some completed kickstarters. They have some in various stages of fulfillment. They have this one that's in the funding stage. And another one planned for down the road. No abandoned projects that I am aware of.

No one likes the significant inflation that has affected the publishing world in the last several years. You can argue about whether bundling all those accessories or producing all the books in one set is a good idea because of the resulting price point. You can be uninterested in the product in the first place. Or not at that price. Or whatever.

If there's actual "this is something that they did that was not cricket" info, then fine. But I find this "I made it up in my head" impugning of the authors to be rather unsavory.

 

[shirgall]

What's strange is the weak value proposition. Kickstarters were intended to take a product to the next stage: volume production. Now they are just cheap marketing. But even cheap marketing pushed value proposition not just brand expansion.

 

[Libris]

What's strange is the weak value proposition. Kickstarters were intended to take a product to the next stage: volume production. Now they are just cheap marketing. But even cheap marketing pushed value proposition not just brand expansion.

Given the current state of the project the perceived weak value does not seem to be much of an issue.

I think idea of the prototype to volume production has always been part of the marketing hype from the crowd funders themselves - it looks good and hides the main part of their business; funding and taking a cut with low risk. The names chosen by them reinforce this implying some sort of sense of business adventure when they’re nothing of the sort. They provide a convenient way of doing it but ultimately they’re simply finance mechanisms to raise capital and get their slice of the pie. Most crowd funders I’ve backed have been a pre-order model with only a small percentage being a precursor to full production.

As for cheap marketing, it’s more like leveraged marketing and trying to get the most bang for your buck and very sensible from a business point of view. All the adverts I’ve seen have been on Facebook with Backerkit acting as a sort of force multiplier by being a well known big crowd funder and lending the project the needed gravitas.

 

[shirgall]

Given the current state of the project the perceived weak value does not seem to be much of an issue.

I think idea of the prototype to volume production has always been part of the marketing hype from the crowd funders themselves - it looks good and hides the main part of their business; funding and taking a cut with low risk. The names chosen by them reinforce this implying some sort of sense of business adventure when they’re nothing of the sort. They provide a convenient way of doing it but ultimately they’re simply finance mechanisms to raise capital and get their slice of the pie. Most crowd funders I’ve backed have been a pre-order model with only a small percentage being a precursor to full production.

As for cheap marketing, it’s more like leveraged marketing and trying to get the most bang for your buck and very sensible from a business point of view. All the adverts I’ve seen have been on Facebook with Backerkit acting as a sort of force multiplier by being a well known big crowd funder and lending the project the needed gravitas.

Sure, in terms of bang for the buck it's easier to sell something new to an existing customer than to get a new customer... but for existing customers... what is the value being offered?

 

[Vormaerin]

Existing customers of whom? World's Largest Games? Since most of what they make is D&D products, I imagine that the value added would be a D&D rules based sci fi game.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It would be nice if there was a way to get the books without all the accessories like dice, minis, and VTT adaptations. But I imagine they probably need to get a certain amount of uptake on that to make it cost effective, so opting out is not a real choice.

There is, you pledge for something and then buy the books as add on. You could pledge for the rulebook (£59) as a standalone and then get the others as an add on. Note you get the Civ X pdf for free,

 

[Sigtrygg]

Lol that would be funny but for the fact you dont know if you are going to have any fun at all with this system because there is nothing on show. There is no information at all on any of it.

I know how D&D works. I have DMed and played nearly every incarnation, along with D20 Future, Modern, CoC and T20... I think people know how it plays.

It's supported by Mongoose and Marc Miller. Why are these supporting it? Because they are getting a share of the profits presumably or have been paid a fee. They are providing a heck of a lot of credibility to this product. But do they have any say in the quality of the product they are supporting? I would like to know what the arrangement is here and how Marc and Mongoose are involved with it, if at all.

Watch the videos.

Most Kickstarter games have at least a reasonably well thought out game concept and design, that has already been playtested and fairly pre-designed with at least an outline of the books that are planned and some that have already been partially pre-written. This has shown nothing. Just a load of book covers and sentence written about the setting, which sounds like it was written yesterday for all the thought that went into it.

You do know who the lead on this project is?

Remember Spinward Traveller anyone ??? Getting the same vibes here.

Rubbish. Your "feels" are nothing more than "your truth".

So for this product its pretty certain that nothing has been written yet.

I'm pretty sure they have written all of it. Who is correct? You and your made up certainty or me and mine? You have no evidence of how much of the project has been developed to date, but I imagine the pitch to Matt and Marc were a little more than back of a fag packet...

It looks like the whole thing is just an idea. That is what you are buying into. And that is a pretty huge risk. But then I guess you have to go into these things expecting you will lose all of your money and get nothing much in return. So expect that.

The company has a proven track record. No more of a risk than backing a Mongoose kickstarter... Vanguard I still want you

 

[nats]

I know how D&D works. I have DMed and played nearly every incarnation, along with D20 Future, Modern, CoC and T20... I think people know how it plays.

Watch the videos.

You do know who the lead on this project is?

Rubbish. Your "feels" are nothing more than "your truth".

I'm pretty sure they have written all of it. Who is correct? You and your made up certainty or me and mine? You have no evidence of how much of the project has been developed to date, but I imagine the pitch to Matt and Marc were a little more than back of a fag packet...

The company has a proven track record. No more of a risk than backing a Mongoose kickstarter... Vanguard I still want you

It comes down to faith and doubt.

I personally think this product sounds like this is far too early for a Kickstarter campaign for this product. Well, I say product, it's not a product it's just really an idea. I wouldnt be surprised if even they don't know exactly what it will be like. Which is why it's not shipping for a year and a half. You say you are 'pretty sure' they will have written all of it. Well I am 'pretty sure' they haven't written any of it. But lets see an example of the character generation if they have. I am prepared to be wrong.

The stretch goals are laughably rubbish. A character sheet. Some dice. COME ON !!! There is just no substance to any of this yet.

Anyway I've said enough on this. I leave you to enjoy the development process.

 

[Sigtrygg]

It comes down to faith and doubt.

Both of which are personal and subjective.

I personally think this product sounds like this is far too early for a Kickstarter campaign for this product.

You are entitled to your opinion, but that is all it is unless you have evidence. I have backed kickstarters where there was only an outline and several re-writes during the campaign, so far I have never been scammed (touches wood).

Well, I say product, it's not a product it's just really an idea.

Evidence please, or again it is just an unfounded opinion.

I wouldnt be surprised if even they don't know exactly what it will be like.

Then why would Marc and Matt appear in videos promoting this? I trust both of them not to be promoting a scam project.

Which is why it's not shipping for a year and a half. You say you are 'pretty sure' they will have written all of it.

No, I was just giving a baseless counter argument with the same evidence. As to the length of time, a year to a year and a half is not the worst, I backed Blue Planet and that took some time.

Well I am 'pretty sure' they haven't written any of it.

And I am "sure" they have it all written, do you see how that works yet? You make up stuff, I make up stuff, neither of us has evidence to back it up.

But lets see an example of the character generation if they have. I am prepared to be wrong.

Agree, some samples would be nice to see.

The stretch goals are laughably rubbish. A character sheet. Some dice. COME ON !!! There is just no substance to any of this yet.

I agree with this, and some of the stretch goals are only for the top end backers, this has been commented on on the campaign community site.

Anyway I've said enough on this. I leave you to enjoy the development process.

I will.