Traveller 5E

[rinku]

All good points. But there's one important role of SOC, which is very much baked into game, and that's to regulate and affect careers.

For an 18 year old it's important to know if they're strong, or smart, or clumsy... and what their social standing is.

As one of the six rolled for (or point allocated) stats, it has that character generation function.

 

[mavikfelna]

All good points. But there's one important role of SOC, which is very much baked into game, and that's to regulate and affect careers.

For an 18 year old it's important to know if they're strong, or smart, or clumsy... and what their social standing is.

As one of the six rolled for (or point allocated) stats, it has that character generation function.

It is always my dump stat and the only time I have every used it is in making a Noble character.

 

[Vormaerin]

As written, it is definitely one that serves little purpose to give a middling value. Either high (for certain careers) or low because it hardly ever affects anything. As pointed out, if you actually have a Social skill to fit into that group, you can almost always use a different stat with it.

 

[rinku]

Classic Traveller is just roll up and see where it takes you. SOC is as free and independent as INT or DEX. It doesn't really matter if it's used very much in the game or not - STR is very often not used much for some charcaters, except as a hit point soak.

 

[mavikfelna]

Classic Traveller is just roll up and see where it takes you. SOC is as free and independent as INT or DEX. It doesn't really matter if it's used very much in the game or not - STR is very often not used much for some charcaters, except as a hit point soak.

At least STR has a use that comes up occasionally.

 

[rinku]

SOC has its uses. But it's not a general charisma stat. That tends to throw off the D&D crowd a bit.

 

[Vormaerin]

Classic Traveller is just roll up and see where it takes you. SOC is as free and independent as INT or DEX. It doesn't really matter if it's used very much in the game or not - STR is very often not used much for some charcaters, except as a hit point soak.

Classic Traveller does not generally make a big deal out of stats and certainly does not give them fixed bonuses, so the comparison is pretty irrelevant. You probably don't use your Stat at all, but if you did, it could be anywhere on the spectrum that gave you a bonus. Survival in the Army was +2 for Edu 6+ for instance. But an Edu 7+ only gives a +1 for Promotion. And 15 wasn't any more useful than 7.

There's practically 0 stat bonuses for most skill tasks in CT.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The use of die rolls, The Traveller Adventure:

"Personal Characteristics: Many cases can be resolved by looking at the character's personal characteristics (strength, dexterity, endurance, intelligence, and so on) which are appropriate to the situation. For example, in lifting or forcing large objects, strength might be most appropriate; a moredelicate situation could depend on dexterity.
The referee should instruct the player character to throw the characteristic or less on two dice. The higher the characteristic, the greater the chance of accomplishing the goal. Relatively easy situations might call for rolling the sum of two characteristics or less; harder situations might have
a positive DM to reduce the chance of success."

I can think of many situations where the SOC of ther PC would be used...

 

[Vormaerin]

I just want to know what the immutable characteristic attached to your character is that allows everyone to realize what caste you were born into 30 years ago on some planet two subsectors away.

 

[NOLATrav]

Maybe SOC is just “a prod to the imagination.”

If you’re running Third Imperium, it can represent cost of living and perceived wealth. Or it can represent notoriety (Fame in T5). Or it can be an actual Noble Title. But quite frankly Noble titles break down canonically IMO because the trip from Knight to Emperor is woefully short. IMTU the Emperor is SOC Z (33) but whatever.

In an ATU it could be the way Humans determine pecking order and leadership structures. I say Humans because Vargr have CHA and Aslan have TER and this is the way it should be. Aliens should be different from Humans.

If I was running Beltstrike, SOC would never have any Noble associations, even in the 3I. I’d use it as an influence metric, bonuses or penalties against claims, paperwork, selling, fuel and gear costs, etc. If I was running “Nobles playing chess with subsectors” then clearly SOC would have a different function.

I agree some clarity and consistency is needed but really, which game doesn’t need that? Kinda the whole point of it all - here’s some guidelines… go nuts and have fun.

 

[Condottiere]

It's for first impressions and interactions.

Without identity verification, it's more mystical than charisma.

 

[NOLATrav]

Maybe Style STY would be better…

 

[Vormaerin]

SOC is a useful concept. I don't think anyone is suggesting ditching it. However, I don't think it is a good 'stat'. It isn't intrinsic to the character the way physical or intellectual capabilities are. If I'm running a campaign in a single cultural area (like Victorian England or the star system of Beltstrike), your characters have a past, they have identifiable cultural traits, and so on. So most people would probably have a fairly established social status. Though even in those situations, you have people who re-invent themselves.

But a band of Travellers roaming about in an old ship going from planet to planet 30 years after they left whatever homeworld and lifestyle they were born to? Maybe this is naive egalitarianism, but I tend to think that someone having gone to University and then worked for 20 years at a financial services corporation rising to senior management (Or whatever their career was) would have more impact on how they are perceived than the circumstances of their birth wherever in the galaxy that was. And even more than their career, what they are doing (or are believed to be doing) at the moment is what matters. Are they considered to be free traders? Corporate officials? Mercenaries?

I don't think that the mechanics around it work or accomplish the intended results. Especially in the Mongoose version, where Characteristics have fairly defined impacts on task checks.

I also tend to think that Int has enough to do without also modifying most social skill task checks, but that's a separate issue.

 

[Condottiere]

You'd think a roving troupe of talented theatre players could pretty much make up any factor of social standing, individually, or as a group.

 

[Limpin Legin]

With all other characteristics, higher is better. SOC's basic flaw is that it has a split meaning, where higher is not always better.

SOC could mean:
Rank within a particular Imperial society (CT or Mg CRB)
Social Standing within one's own social network/background or equivalent (Mg Companion)
Charismatic in convincing others to side with you (D&D)
Or, in understanding sophont social dynamics (without necessarily being particularly Charismatic about it.)

The Mg CRB is consistent with the Classic Traveller rules. The Mg Companion goes some way into understanding the different meanings to SOC, but lacks any mechanism to compensate for the apparent split meaning, where a higher SOC score is not always better.

 

[rinku]

Body mass is generally taken from Strength and/or Endurance. Being tall or heavy is also not always an advantage either.

Squeeze through a narrow gap: Routine (8+) Reverse the higher DM for STR or END (i.e. STR 9 means a DM of -1)

Honestly, I think people are making too much of high SOC in a lowlife environment. It may confer no *advantage*... but is being extremely low SOC an advantage either? The SOC 5 crowd likely look down on the SOC 2 guys too. So it's just not the most appropriate stat to use in that situation, just as STR has no meaning when writing a poem. The mental stats are also more easily hidden than the physical stats... although high SOC goes with public profile. Recognising a particular character from previously consumed media would probably use their SOC DM, or add a boon if it was high.

A bane makes for a useful mechanic when a character is still using SOC, but is out of their usual frame of reference. Aslan noble trying to impress a Vargr court. A CEO infiltrating a shop counter workplace to see if things are okay.

 

[Vormaerin]

I will admit, that I have never in my entire Traveller career seen anyone, at table or in a published adventure, call for roll to squeeze through a tight gap and use STR or END as a penalty.

Anyway, I repeat: the point is not that SOC isn't a real thing that can matter. The point is that the mechanic of reflecting AS A CHARACTERISTIC is bad. It does not behave like a Characteristic. It is highly situational, it varies from place to place, and it has approximately zero application outside of the extremes. Does anyone know the difference between SOC 5, SOC 7, or SOC 9 in terms of who your character is or who they are treated? Outside of 2/3 or 11+, I doubt many people give a single thought to what their character's SOC means.

Also, it is not typically fixed in childhood the way the CRB suggests it is. SOC is, by far, the most difficult Characteristic to improve in Chargen, which suggests that Traveller assumes the far future is an extremely pervasive Caste System where the primary form of social mobility is achieving command rank in the military. (Which is directly contradicted by the optional rules in the Companion, which makes SOC a reflection of your visible wealth. Though your SOC characteristic does not actually reflect anything about your character's income, just if you choose to spend it on lifestyle).

This is why SOC has a variant system in the Companion AND there is also an optional stat for Wealth, which is a spinoff of SOC, and an option for using SOC as social acumen instead of social status.

 

[Condottiere]

Dating.

 

[rinku]

Vormaerin makes a good point that CT effectively does present a stratified society, although a caste system may be overstating it. To me it appears more of a class system; lower class, middle class, upper class. As such, it maps to 20th century western society, which is unsurprising.

A caste system would lock the characters into one role rigidly for life. Certainly that is NOT the case with Mongoose Traveller careers!

High rank in the Army, Navy and Marines are ways to end up with a higher SOC, but so are Agent, Entertainer and Scholar (and you also get +1 SOC from graduating University with Honours). The Entertainer path is especially good at turning humble beginnings into membership of the elite.

Slightly ironically, Noble isn't great for IMPROVING SOC, and has one of the nastier events for losing it, in the Duel. However, for the patient upwardly mobile member of the Quality or the lucky social climber (even SOC 6 can get in one time out of 6 on their first enlistment attempt!), it can pay off socially. SOC 8 that graduates with Honours, or a natural SOC 9 only need an enlistment roll of 9+, so that's nice.

(But becoming an influencer would probably be quicker and easier...)

It probably should be noted that SOC is the only one of the mental characteristics that can decrease due to events (though aging will eventually affect them), and while the physical ones can drop from injuries and aging, you get a chance to repair injuries with medical costs. A sullied reputation? Not so much.

 

[Vormaerin]

It's the Military Academy that gives +1 SOC on Honors, not regular University, just FYI.

Entertainer and Scholar are the only careers that give +SOC as a personal development option.

Rank 6 in Agent (Law Enforcement) or Citizen (Corporate) and Rank 5 in Merchant (Corporate) can give a slight boost of +1.

Noble, Agent, Entertainer, or Scholar can get +SOC as a mustering out benefit.

Military (Army, Navy, Marines) will put you near the top if you reach the upper officer ranks.

Citizens (Colonist/Worker), Drifters, Scouts, Rogues, Merchants (Broker, Free Trader), Military (Enlisted) have no ability to improve their social status.

What's interesting is that the big money careers (Corporate Merchant, Broker, Corporate Officer) can barely shift the social scale (and only if you reach the pinnacle of your profession).

(Also, amusingly, Entertainers and Scholars have the best chances of improving SOC but at the cost of actually getting good at their jobs (aka rolling on +SOC on Personal Development instead of getting a skill )

Also note that of those careers that can give you more than minimal SOC improvement, many are gated by SOC checks before you get those chances. Military Officer is SOC 8+ roll to enter (though Mil Academy does not have a SOC check gate), Corporate Official & Artist are SOC 6+ for survival every term, Noble is SOC 10+ to get into (if not already 10+).

All in all, Social Mobility is extremely limited and business success (aka money) is essentially irrelevant. It is interesting that scientists can be upwardly mobile.