Travel on a Freighter (How I see tramp passage)

[sideranautae]

Cargo ships often act as passenger ships and offer real travel alternatives under the banner of freighter cruises, however travel by cargo ship is often more expensive than you might expect, regularly costing about the same as a cruise ship! So you might wonder why you would want to travel on a cargo ship as a passenger in this way. There are several good reasons;

Cargo ships often cover less touristy parts of the world which are not serviced by cruise ships

Cargo ships travel throughout the year unlike cruise ships which are influenced by passenger demand, this means that cruise ships often only sail in the high season (usually the summer)

When you are a passenger on a cargo ship you usually get to dine with the captain of the ship and his officers

The standard of passenger accommodation is generally very good with most cargo ship passenger cabins having their own toilet and shower (you don't have to sleep in a container!)

Cargo ships usually accommodated just 12 or fewer passengers (a doctor is required for more than this), so the cargo ship is not going to be over crowded with other passengers.

One special meal per jump.

Sunday menu offers refined dining, unique to the CMA CGM vessels flying French flag: paté de fois gras, steamed prawns and a delicious quarter of roast stuffed capon flavored with one of those exquisite sauces for which the cook, Harlein, never reveals the secret recipe. We abstained from the cheese tray offered in a very professional way by the diligent steward, Gabri, and we finish with a generous slice of lukewarm Napoleon cake. We then move to the lounge for coffee as the chief engineer, Dominique, comes with a bottle of whisky to seal this lavish meal.

 

[Infojunky]

I always imagined traveling by Tramp to more like the interisland freighters of the South Pacific. A weeks passage was something like $150 plus meals if you didn't bring your own food. Several cases of Beer really greased made me a popular man on that trip. Heck the beer was cheap, I think I paid something $10 at the package store for like 6 cases..... Mind the biggest ship I rode in was maybe 150 feet long and the longest passage I recall was 5 days. But then again I was going places you couldn't get to by air mostly.

Gee, now I am all nostalgic for Southeast Asia and the rest of the South Pacific.....

 

[Reynard]

I think we're describing a free trader! Seems Marc had a plan.

 

[sideranautae]

I always imagined traveling by Tramp to more like the interisland freighters of the South Pacific. A weeks passage was something like $150 plus meals if you didn't bring your own food.

Sounds good except the prices in Trav are more in line with paying for a luxury cruise when comparing mid passage rates to middle class income in Trav.

But now you have me pining for Moorea!

 

[sideranautae]

I think we're describing a free trader! Seems Marc had a plan.

Yep. Marc did his research or guessed extremely well in many respects about this.

 

[Reynard]

I think the prices reflect your ship is also dealing with NO AIR and HARD RADIATION as compared to poor babies' queasy stomachs when the ocean rolls and a drizzle.

 

[sideranautae]

I think the prices reflect your ship is also dealing with NO AIR and HARD RADIATION as compared to poor babies' queasy stomachs when the ocean rolls and a drizzle.

You mean that the high, real world prices of freighter travel would be LOWER if they dealt with no air & radiation?

Not sure I am correctly reading what you wrote. I need coffee

 

[enderra]

You mean that the high, real world prices of freighter travel would be LOWER if they dealt with no air & radiation?

Not sure I am correctly reading what you wrote. I need coffee

No, he said exactly the opposite - i.e. space travel is more expensive than ocean travel. Though that, of course, is not the comparison applicable; it is tramp freighter versus luxury liner, where, as was stated earlier in the thread, most people would assume that the tramp freighter should be a low budget way of traveling.

At any rate; the analogy of traveling on a free trader to a ocean-going tramp freighter is quite obvious, considering sci fi authors also oftentimes use the same term - tramp freighter. Heinlein did some travel on freighters in the 1950s, and we must keep in mind that commercial air travel only became commonly available (i.e. not just for the upper crust of society) in the 1960 and developed into a mass phenomena in the 1970 (see Pan Am and the 747) and most of Traveller's source material was written before the jet age.

It might be an interesting exercise to id some of that source material that actually describes shipboard life, and compare it to Traveller. Rolling Stones, Farmer in the Sky, Starman Jones and to a lesser extent Citizen of the Galaxy by Heinlein come to mind, as does Tubb's Dumarest though I could never make myself complete even the first book of that series (it is fairly dull) so it may not have as much detail as I think it should.

 

[sideranautae]

No, he said exactly the opposite - i.e. space travel is more expensive than ocean travel. Though that, of course, is not the comparison applicable; it is tramp freighter versus luxury liner, where, as was stated earlier in the thread, most people would assume that the tramp freighter should be a low budget way of traveling.

I thought I was wrong. But yes, I was comparing luxury liner cost to freighter cost. Which are close to the same. Which is also true in the Trav rules for space travel.

Heinlein did some travel on freighters in the 1950s, and we must keep in mind that commercial air travel only became commonly available (i.e. not just for the upper crust of society) in the 1960 and developed into a mass phenomena in the 1970 (see Pan Am and the 747) and most of Traveller's source material was written before the jet age.

Yes, some of us were alive back then and know about this. :lol: In reality, air travel in the 60's was still relatively very expensive and confined to those with money (at least long flights). Not until the 70's did it get quite a bit cheaper. And then when illegal gov supported route monopolies and pricing schemes were abolished in the 80's, it got cheaper due to market forces being allowed.

It might be an interesting exercise to id some of that source material that actually describes shipboard life, .

You can find contemporary accounts online if you search as it is an ongoing activity. Also as the TL has gone up considerably since the 50's it would be more relative to a Traveller experience.

 

[enderra]

You can find contemporary accounts online if you search as it is an ongoing activity.

I obviously meant the source material used for Traveller.

 

[sideranautae]

You can find contemporary accounts online if you search as it is an ongoing activity.

I obviously meant the source material used for Traveller.

Oops, sorry. I KNOW that there was something. But I read it so long ago. If I think of it I'll post it back to this thread.

 

[Rick]

EC Tubb's 'Dumarest' series was a big influence on Traveller; the High, Middle and Low passage ideas (including the mortality rate for Low) were from there but, iirc the ship travel occurred between the books, so that each book had him arriving on a planet, his adventure there, then leaving by whichever method he could afford at the end of the book. I did read a couple of these many years ago, but I don't think there was a huge amount of info on the actual ship operations.

 

[sideranautae]

EC Tubb's 'Dumarest' series was a big influence on Traveller; the High, Middle and Low passage ideas (including the mortality rate for Low) were from there but, iirc the ship travel occurred between the books, so that each book had him arriving on a planet, his adventure there, then leaving by whichever method he could afford at the end of the book. I did read a couple of these many years ago, but I don't think there was a huge amount of info on the actual ship operations.

Cool!

The 1st 6 go for $20 as epub

http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-dumarest-ebook-collection-e-c-tubb/1113809747?ean=9780575122208

 

[enderra]

I tried to read Dumarest and judging by my experience $3+/book is too expensive. With no offense to the late Mr Tubbs, they are honestly not very good, and I assume that, nowadays, they are of mostly nostalgic - or in our case here, academic - value to readers.

This: http://www.jeffbuser.com/Dumarest/cultureandtech.html

lists some of the similarities. It seems quite striking.

 

[sideranautae]

I tried to read Dumarest and judging by my experience $3+/book is too expensive. With no offense to the late Mr Tubbs, they are honestly not very good, and I assume that, nowadays, they are of mostly nostalgic - or in our case here, academic - value to readers.

This: http://www.jeffbuser.com/Dumarest/cultureandtech.html

lists some of the similarities. It seems quite striking.

Fascinating. Escecially so considering how jealously Marc covets the "Traveller" name usage and setting details revolving around these major plot settings to the point of suits. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[enderra]

Fascinating. Escecially so considering how jealously Marc covets the "Traveller" name usage and setting details revolving around these major plot settings to the point of suits. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Does he really? I wasn't even aware of that. Well, then we should probably start another thread about the art that Traveller has used over the year that clearly infringes on other people's copyrights (Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica come to mind as two examples I have seen, but there are undoubtedly others).

 

[sideranautae]

Fascinating. Escecially so considering how jealously Marc covets the "Traveller" name usage and setting details revolving around these major plot settings to the point of suits. The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Does he really? I wasn't even aware of that.

Oh yes.

Well, then we should probably start another thread about the art that Traveller has used over the year that clearly infringes on other people's copyrights (Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica come to mind as two examples I have seen, but there are undoubtedly others).

Really? I wasn't aware that Trav had lifted artwork directly. Do you know of any specific examples of ships?

 

[enderra]

Really? I wasn't aware that Trav had lifted artwork directly. Do you know of any specific examples of ships?

Not of ships, no; the closest example would be the Broadsword mercenary cruiser (with the Sword worlds and the Star Vikings thrown in for good measure) from Space Viking, but that's not a legal problem now (it may have been when it was originally added to Traveller).

What some of the artists did was copy art from other sources and change it superficially (such as adding a helmet to a character, or omitting some background details etc).

Actually, yes there is one more, though not exactly what you had in mind. The cover of Atlas of the Imperium:

http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.r99.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/156507.jpg

Is quite clearly the Nostromo:

http://www.ncc-1701-a.net/gallery/aliens/nostromo-1LG.jpg

This does give you a fairly good idea of the issue. If someone tried this sort of stunt now they'd get C&D's left right and center. (And rightfully so, too.)

 

[sideranautae]

Actually, yes there is one more, though not exactly what you had in mind. The cover of Atlas of the Imperium:

http://940ee6dce6677fa01d25-0f55c9129972ac85d6b1f4e703468e6b.r99.cf2.rackcdn.com/products/pictures/156507.jpg

Is quite clearly the Nostromo:

http://www.ncc-1701-a.net/gallery/aliens/nostromo-1LG.jpg

This does give you a fairly good idea of the issue. If someone tried this sort of stunt now they'd get C&D's left right and center. (And rightfully so, too.)

This example isn't a copyright infringement. If someone issued C&D's over this the atty would get killed by a judge and would probably open himself up for counter-suit. I know of more than one business IP atty that would LOVE to defend and counter sue over something like that.

 

[enderra]

This example isn't a copyright infringement.

Yeah, it is. Why wouldn't it be? The ship is almost an 1:1 copy, and recognizably so; and there is no doubt that there is a copyright on the movie Alien. I am not going to rewatch it just to see if the artist copied a particular frame or shot but that's not necessary to infringement. You may not derive from copyrighted works without permission.

But IANAL. Feel free to ask your lawyer buddies, I am convinced they'll tell you something along those lines. It might be hard to prove actual damages, and it's probably too late to sue over it by now anyway; but in principle whoever owns the IP could presumably at least enforce the payment of licensing fees.