Trading System sucks

[markus_d]

Its close to impossible to loose money with the speculative trading system. (Traveller Classic Version)
My players did 3 Jumps and earned several megacredits.

So I decided to change the system radically!

On a Type A Downport they say the Modificator is +6 to find a buyer.
So this means one can sell simply everything in unlimited amount, even up to 400% of the base cost.
This is abolute crap. A big Starport should mean a lot of competition.
Nobody would buy stuff for that price.
Even products that are produced on the same planet can be sold with high profits

So I eliminated the Starport modificator alltogether.

The population on the planet you sell on does not matter at all. This is crap as well.
There are planets with type A starport with a population of 20.000 people.
You have to sell mostly to local people because other traders will never pay more than the base price!

So we use this modificators (Population Indicator):
0 = -3, 1-2 = -2, 3-5 = -1, 6-8 = +0, 9-11 = +1, 12-14 = +2, 15 = +3
If the planet produces the products itself another -2.
The mod is used on number of tons you find buyers for.
Example: (1D6-3) x 5 t Advanced Weapons with Population 0.

Do you all use the normal system or use silmilar modifications?

 

[Sigtrygg]

I've seen loads of groups driven into a life of patron encounters because they lost all their money on bad die rolls in CT speculative trade.

Do you mean CT or MgT?

 

[tolcreator]

I presume MgT.
One thing I have noticed is that there seems to be 2 "modes" of operation in speculative trade.

Mode 1: The initial stages, when the PCs are cash-poor. The PCs are forced to buy either small amounts of high value cargo, or large amounts of marginal cargo. Passengers, freight, mail makes a huge difference on whether this trip is successful or not. A bad roll can wipe you out.

Mode 2: Usually once the PCs have made about 1 million credits. Once this point is reached, the PCs can speculate on large amounts of high value cargo. An actual loss is very rare. Even a slight profit makes the whole trip profitable, as we're talking small percentages of large values. A good roll generates a huge profit.

Once you've a bank like that, you can afford to soak up some unprofitable runs (by which I mean, a marginal run that would have you scraping or making a small loss before), and make vast sums on profitable ones.
Given that your skill/stat is added to both the purchase and sale roll, once you have enough of a buffer to survive the odd loss, just that fact alone, leaving out any modifiers for purchase or sale, will ensure that the house (in the form of your ship) always wins. The 3D6 roll favours medium outcomes, with outliers rare.

This wouldn't really be solved by extra modifiers for population etc. It's down to the abstract nature of the trading system, and the fact that it lacks memory, or a model of trade.
If one were to design a better system, I wonder if one could do something like say the background simulation in Elite Dangerous, where you track the demand and supply of various commodities across a region of space, and every merchant out there (especially flexible tramp merchants) are chasing profitable runs (thus eventually meeting the demand and removing the supply). It would be hell to do with dice and paper, but in a world of apps and computers, I might be well doable...

Then the campaign is about finding leads, following up rumours, trying to predict events, etc. I imagine such a simulation might have weekly or monthly random (or purposeful) events like wars, famines, natural disasters, recessions, good harvests, new inventions, fashion crazes, bumper economies, etc.

 

[arcador]

Is it MgT1 or MgT 2? In MgT 2 the % of the base cost go up to 160, as previously were 400. That can be considered as a "nerf".
---

Even if you gimp the system, slowing the trade income by several folds, the players will inevitably get rich again, just slower - it will take not 2 but 6 sessions, for example. Also, the game will become boring.

Those trading minigames, by themselves, rarely hold any real danger to the players. That is where you, as a referee, can add variety, fluctuations, and drama, which can result in some very, very bad runs (if the players don't manage it out). Pirates, competitors, local events, enemies, smugglers, and rivals ... the possibilities are endless!

---

This is not Traveller specific, but a story with similar outcome. On a fantasy rpg, some of the players managed an Inn. Since it wasn't more than an afterthought (and the GM had zero experience with manegement irl), it provided a steady income to the players, which was significantly bigger than what we've managed to obtain the normal way (i.e. doing "quests").

 

[markus_d]

We use MgT 1.
I created a bank and said the players can have a credit for a good percentange.
Their spaceship as security.
The loan was 2.5 mcr for 3% interest a year. (Maybe I am too influenced by our little planet )
So they can start buying stuff and start their voyage.

I want to use the trading as a constant to keep my players going.

 

[tolcreator]

Ah so you effectively skipped Mode 1 straight to Mode 2

In a previous thread I pointed out how starship mortgages have APRs that make today's house buyers green with envy.
I think I mentioned picturing a bunch of heavily armed murder hobos entering the bank:
"So you want to take out a loan eh? With this ship as collateral? And you're operating on the frontier of known space, with pirates and aliens and... say you're not planning anything illegal like smuggling are you? You're not planning anything dangerous are you?"
"No sir! The guns and sandcasters on the ship are purely defensive in nature"
"That sounds like an investment as safe as a home loan to a settled professional with good credit history, congratulations!"
<PCs shoot guns in air in celebration>

I.e.: PC starship mortgages are supplied by Jabba the Hut, not Freddie Mac

 

[markus_d]

Lol. Guess you are right.

But nonetheless the system should work better in the long run.
I saw that new version of Traveller has a better Modified price table. With 160% max.
I will use this one as well.
For the money my players already earned they will be able to finally buy some defence for the ship not more.

Thinking about how to implement this "jabba the hut" credit though

 

[alex_greene]

The secret is to stagger trading into phases.

One, six months of shuttling freight, passengers and mail around. That's enough to get you six months of maintenance and mortgage costs banked up.

Two, three months of spec trading. Ringfence the money you earned through the first phase; speculate with money you have from your pensions and other sources.

Three, three months of looking for Patrons.

If phases 2 and 3 are a bust, you'll still have managed to pay for your ship, if you kept the rainy day fund untouched.

Then start the next year going back to that profitable circuit you mapped out, and grind away at freight, passengers and mail for the next six months, and so on.

 

[Condottiere]

Seems less impressive if Jabba is dunning Han for defaulting on his home loan.