Track that target SA
- Thread starter Banichi
- Start date
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
Well, he did say if that you could use it if you were worried that your boresighted target might be destroyed. However, I think that's tenuous as best! Generally speaking, I'm going to want to apply my full firepower if I can, and take TTT if that isn't going to happen.
I disagree with your second point though - most times, I'd rather take 2 AD of beam against a Battle level threat than 4 AD against a Patrol vessel, so I can see this SA being used fairly frequently.
Regards,
Dave
i prefer to kill the init sinks so you can bring full firepower to bear later.
4AD against that patrol target means its probably dead and may let you line up the full 4AD against the battle target next turn.
so same AD against battle target over the 2 turns but also killed his patrol init sink as an added bonus.
havent seen my earther/narn players use it yet and doubt i will for my EA/narn either.
4AD against that patrol target means its probably dead and may let you line up the full 4AD against the battle target next turn.
so same AD against battle target over the 2 turns but also killed his patrol init sink as an added bonus.
havent seen my earther/narn players use it yet and doubt i will for my EA/narn either.
Inferior guns for an inferior race :lol:
(I thought 6AD beam would have been a good change - maybe even 8AD beam?)
still thats 2AD Beam shooting at the actual ships that can hurt it and crit its laser out of commission or send it adrift etc - and of course the IN sinks maybe behind a moon or dust cloud so otherwise the BS ship may have no target at all..................
(I thought 6AD beam would have been a good change - maybe even 8AD beam?)
still thats 2AD Beam shooting at the actual ships that can hurt it and crit its laser out of commission or send it adrift etc - and of course the IN sinks maybe behind a moon or dust cloud so otherwise the BS ship may have no target at all..................
Foxmeister
Mongoose
katadder said:
Assuming the Narn CBD stays as is, it does leave an interest tactical quandary - do you CBD to stay alive long enough to bring your very short ranged secondaries to bear, or do you use TTT to give your "beam team" a chance to shine.
I do think it's one of the "cool things" that actually fulfills its remit pretty well.
Regards,
Dave
Greg Smith
Mongoose
katadder said:
No, your firepower is only halved if you fire off bore. Just because you TTT, does mean you have to fire off bore.
Example, G'Quan 1 lines up a Vorchan with its beam. G'Quan 2 perfoms TTT and also lines up its beam. G'Quan 1 rolls 27 hits and annihilates the Vorchan. G'Quan 2 can now fire at the Maximus that was escorting the ill-fated Vorchan with half AD. However if, G'Quan 1's bean had rolled 2 hits, then the Vorchan would have been the target with full AD.
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Copied from the General Playtest thread, pasting here for cross-referencing:
Davesaint and Ripple will shortly be posting their impressions, but we just ran 2 tests of Track That Target (Triple-T) and Attack Run.
The tests were 3 Warbirds, 3 Strikehawks against 6 Vorchans and against 6 Olympus.
Vs. Olympus, What Happened:
Initial finding was that the Drazi strongly underperformed. While TTT helped, it just wasn't enough. On the first turn, the Drazi were forced to choose between beam shots and no CBD vs. no shots but only eating the missiles. As it turned out, there was a third option that neither of us saw at the time, but would have been superior. One tactical mistake then snowballed and the Olympus at the Drazi for lunch.
What We Learned:
CQ 9 for TTT is just too hard for the Drazi; they need it at 8. However, I don't like EA having it at 8 (especially the Hyperion!); I'm thinking Drazi special rule.
One Attack Run succeeded, and did some decent damage. However, the requirement that hits had to be confirmed really stank. Decided then and there that failed Attack Runs should come with no firing penalty, and there should be no confirmation roll.
Turret races and ships eat Drazi for lunch.
Vs. Vorchans, What Happened:
A fortutitous dust cloud and some good initial placement allowed the Drazi and Vorchan exchange to be with the Drazi in the dust cloud and the Vorchans outside of it and outside of 8. One Drazi Strikehawks and several Particle Cannons didn't get to fire. However, two missed stealth checks and a 4-6 critical to a Vorchan meant only 3 Vorchans fired (still crippling 1 Warbird). Drazi eliminated one Vorchan in exchange. Drazi hit 1 TTT allowing for one set of potshots against a target that it normally couldn't have fired at (target ship was already dead). 3 Sky Serpents were then launched, against which the Vorchans proved to have little defense. Both fleets then overflew each other and started to come around; the Vorchans to avoid the Sky Serpents, and the Drazi to try Attack Runs. No Attack Runs succeeded (2 attempts). More of them couldnt be tried as the base size of the Warbird didn't clear the base of the target ship of the overrun. This happened repeatedly; some defenses even evolved where Attack Runs were prevented by keeping the Drazi from having a legal place to put the base of the overrunning craft after the shot, usually by having one ship directly behind the other. Turn 3, both fleets engaged; one Vorchan was killed outright by 3 Sky Serpents. The crippled Warbird, another Warbird, and a Strikehawk went down to Vorchans in exchange for 2 more Vorchans. 2 Track That Targets succeeded, but one never got to fire as a Vorchan squadron just decided to eliminate it. The other kept its original target. Down 3 ships to 2, the Centauri kept at it, got a good come about, but failed another Stealth check against the Dust Cloud. In exchange, that ship got shot, and the turn after, the Sky Serpents finished it off. At this point the game was over.
What We Learned:
Drazi got very, very lucky throughout the entire fight. Stealth saved them by the grace of dice alone, and they hit a ton of Come Abouts. TTT is the Drazi CAF roll, a SA you take on an attack run as an option of opportunity. The wording on TTT doesn't force you to take the off-bore shot, so you can keep your current target at full dice or use them off-bore for 1/2 dice; we love this option. You can positionally defend against Attack Run by playing base-denial games. We had one instance of the Drazi player wanting to move first (when have you ever heard that!?!) so his Attack Run target couldn't get away in time, very cool. Attack Run may succeed too rarely, but I'm not as certain about this one as a Drazi successfully TTTing on CQ 8 instead of 9, especially since there are tactical defenses. Supported Vorchans are much less ppwerful than supported ones. If the Centauri had Wolfpack as written, we would not have even had something you could call a game, no need for Interceptors, Stealth Targets, Sponges, nothing --- Hunting Packs are just busted.
Better tales will be told by Davesaint and Ripple.
Davesaint and Ripple will shortly be posting their impressions, but we just ran 2 tests of Track That Target (Triple-T) and Attack Run.
The tests were 3 Warbirds, 3 Strikehawks against 6 Vorchans and against 6 Olympus.
Vs. Olympus, What Happened:
Initial finding was that the Drazi strongly underperformed. While TTT helped, it just wasn't enough. On the first turn, the Drazi were forced to choose between beam shots and no CBD vs. no shots but only eating the missiles. As it turned out, there was a third option that neither of us saw at the time, but would have been superior. One tactical mistake then snowballed and the Olympus at the Drazi for lunch.
What We Learned:
CQ 9 for TTT is just too hard for the Drazi; they need it at 8. However, I don't like EA having it at 8 (especially the Hyperion!); I'm thinking Drazi special rule.
One Attack Run succeeded, and did some decent damage. However, the requirement that hits had to be confirmed really stank. Decided then and there that failed Attack Runs should come with no firing penalty, and there should be no confirmation roll.
Turret races and ships eat Drazi for lunch.
Vs. Vorchans, What Happened:
A fortutitous dust cloud and some good initial placement allowed the Drazi and Vorchan exchange to be with the Drazi in the dust cloud and the Vorchans outside of it and outside of 8. One Drazi Strikehawks and several Particle Cannons didn't get to fire. However, two missed stealth checks and a 4-6 critical to a Vorchan meant only 3 Vorchans fired (still crippling 1 Warbird). Drazi eliminated one Vorchan in exchange. Drazi hit 1 TTT allowing for one set of potshots against a target that it normally couldn't have fired at (target ship was already dead). 3 Sky Serpents were then launched, against which the Vorchans proved to have little defense. Both fleets then overflew each other and started to come around; the Vorchans to avoid the Sky Serpents, and the Drazi to try Attack Runs. No Attack Runs succeeded (2 attempts). More of them couldnt be tried as the base size of the Warbird didn't clear the base of the target ship of the overrun. This happened repeatedly; some defenses even evolved where Attack Runs were prevented by keeping the Drazi from having a legal place to put the base of the overrunning craft after the shot, usually by having one ship directly behind the other. Turn 3, both fleets engaged; one Vorchan was killed outright by 3 Sky Serpents. The crippled Warbird, another Warbird, and a Strikehawk went down to Vorchans in exchange for 2 more Vorchans. 2 Track That Targets succeeded, but one never got to fire as a Vorchan squadron just decided to eliminate it. The other kept its original target. Down 3 ships to 2, the Centauri kept at it, got a good come about, but failed another Stealth check against the Dust Cloud. In exchange, that ship got shot, and the turn after, the Sky Serpents finished it off. At this point the game was over.
What We Learned:
Drazi got very, very lucky throughout the entire fight. Stealth saved them by the grace of dice alone, and they hit a ton of Come Abouts. TTT is the Drazi CAF roll, a SA you take on an attack run as an option of opportunity. The wording on TTT doesn't force you to take the off-bore shot, so you can keep your current target at full dice or use them off-bore for 1/2 dice; we love this option. You can positionally defend against Attack Run by playing base-denial games. We had one instance of the Drazi player wanting to move first (when have you ever heard that!?!) so his Attack Run target couldn't get away in time, very cool. Attack Run may succeed too rarely, but I'm not as certain about this one as a Drazi successfully TTTing on CQ 8 instead of 9, especially since there are tactical defenses. Supported Vorchans are much less ppwerful than supported ones. If the Centauri had Wolfpack as written, we would not have even had something you could call a game, no need for Interceptors, Stealth Targets, Sponges, nothing --- Hunting Packs are just busted.
Better tales will be told by Davesaint and Ripple.
Well if your opponent knows this then he may move the larger ships first to force you into firing on them. If you still wish to kill the initiative sinks you'd have to use TTT.katadder said:
This is not to mention the times when an enemy has one or two Damage points left and is moved last to avoid being fired at (when any shot would kill it).
I think its a good SA - how about it be CQ 8 for Drazi - they would be most used to doing it and CQ 9 for everyone else? Boosts the Drazi but gives other races a chance to use the SA?
Psi Corps already would be effectively at 8 as it is? EA may use it less in battle as have both F and A boresight (in fulff terms) and the Narn.........well who cares
(joke, I think it would be Ok for them too?)
Psi Corps already would be effectively at 8 as it is? EA may use it less in battle as have both F and A boresight (in fulff terms) and the Narn.........well who cares
(joke, I think it would be Ok for them too?)Greg Smith
Mongoose
katadder said:
You wanted the CQ reduced because you didn't think it was good enough. When I pointed out what it was capable of, you now think it is too good.
Actually it does:
"If a ship has a weapon system with the Boresight or Boresight Aft arc and it succeeds in the Crew Quality Check, then it can use the weapon to attack a target with half of its Attack Dice (rounding down). However, it will change its fire arc to either Forward or Aft respectively for the next Attack Phase only."
It does not say that if you succeed in the SA, you must half your AD amd fire off bore. You have the option.
Foxmeister
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
The fluff text says that it is necessary to recalibrate the weapon in order to fire of bore, and that doing so sacrifices power. Therefore, I'm of the opinion that if you succeed in performing this SA, you can only fire at reduced AD even if you manage to get a target in boresight.
Regards,
Dave
"If a ship has a weapon system with the Boresight or Boresight Aft arc and it succeeds in the Crew Quality Check, then it can use the weapon to attack a target with half of its Attack Dice (rounding down). However, it will change its fire arc to either Forward or Aft respectively for the next Attack Phase only."
by this its changed its arc at the expense of firepower.
and yes i wanted it changed in CQ because i assumed as foxmeister seems to agree with me they are sacrificing firepower for the greater arc.
of course if you read something a differant way then you want may change your mind, or is that just not logical? as a change to just forward arc at loss of half firepower it needs to be lower CQ. as you read it greg its too flexible.
by this its changed its arc at the expense of firepower.
and yes i wanted it changed in CQ because i assumed as foxmeister seems to agree with me they are sacrificing firepower for the greater arc.
of course if you read something a differant way then you want may change your mind, or is that just not logical? as a change to just forward arc at loss of half firepower it needs to be lower CQ. as you read it greg its too flexible.
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