Towed Arrays for starships.

[Condottiere]

Luckily, the Iranians wanted sanctions lifted, so release was relatively quickly, though the hardliners did decide to squeeze some propaganda juice out of it. As regards to what they actually had business there, you're guess is as good as mine, though they might have dropped something or someone off.

Twelve nautical miles, unless you have a neighbour.

 

[Rick]

Yup, that's the term. And when it's done in the air as well. You are starting to see more of that today. In Europe and the US its the Russians who are starting to do more maneuvers and teasing the US and NATO. In the Baltic they did a practice cruise missile attack run on some NATO ships, and the Black Sea/Turkey area is a very hot issue. Both sides are doing "freedom" maneuvers. A Russian ship transiting through the Strait of Bosporus was "aggressively brandishing" crew-held AA weapons, which incensed Turkey. But closing the strait to Russian warships would be a very provocative move they aren't willing to do yet.

And NATO have been doing something like 10-20 simulated attack runs a day toward the Russian border for nearly a year now - both sides are being as stupid as each other. As to the Turkey incident, it happened very shortly after Turkey shot down a Russian plane in Syria, so tempers were probably a bit high - Turkey certainly made the most out of the incident. Since December 2015, Turkey has restricted access to the Bosphorus by Russian shipping both civilian and military, although it hasn't gone so far as to close it off entirely, just delaying tactics and harassment - which is provocative enough.

 

[phavoc]

Spying on... what exactly? They were riverine craft. If they wanted to spy on something they could have easily sent up a Rivet Joint or even an F-18 equipped with a recon pod. The only thing that being there locally would have told them was what was IN the water. Aerial recon would have proven far superior.

One of their problems is that Iran has an Island out there that they can claim territorial waters, and because of it's location and their planned course they got too close to Iranian territorial waters.

Spying on the other guy's boats. Iran has a lot of armed speedboats, and they practise 'swarm' attacks against larger ships with them. Without sending someone out there, how do you tell the difference between a Revolutionary Guard speedboat, fishermen, and some Shiek's kids out for a joyride? So the US has to have armed speedboats too, and they all end up playing cat and mouse.

Which island do you mean? I see some but they're all on the opposite side of the pond. I'm reluctant to buy a better map of the region ...

edit: Found out the exact type of boat used. Despite 'river' in the name, they're designed as coastal patrol craft. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-class_fast_assault_craft

edit: It was Farsi island. I managed to find a map. It's right in the middle of a 100 mile wide channel. What's the territorial limit there? 3 or 12?

Yup, that's the island. Any nation can claim up to 12 miles for territorial limit, and 200 miles for economic limit. Well, it's actually a little more complicated than that, as there are some rules about islands, continental shelves and such, but that's basically the rule.

Recon cameras on a drone, helo or plane would do as good or better than a small surface combatant like those craft. This is where having an aerostat would come in handy.

 

[Rick]

Yup, that's the island. Any nation can claim up to 12 miles for territorial limit, and 200 miles for economic limit. Well, it's actually a little more complicated than that, as there are some rules about islands, continental shelves and such, but that's basically the rule.

It's a lot more complicated than that - it's a more-or-less enclosed waterway and the boundary between Iran's territorial waters and Saudi/Qatari/etc territorial waters run pretty much right down the middle. According to the countries there, International waters end in the Gulf of Oman, there are none within the Persian Gulf - and trying to pin down what every nation thinks its territorial waters should be has led to more conflicts than anything else.
It is entirely possible for a boat to be simultaneously in Saudi, Qatari and Iranian territorial waters at one and the same time.

 

[wbnc]

Yup, that's the island. Any nation can claim up to 12 miles for territorial limit, and 200 miles for economic limit. Well, it's actually a little more complicated than that, as there are some rules about islands, continental shelves and such, but that's basically the rule.

It's a lot more complicated than that - it's a more-or-less enclosed waterway and the boundary between Iran's territorial waters and Saudi/Qatari/etc territorial waters run pretty much right down the middle. According to the countries there, International waters end in the Gulf of Oman, there are none within the Persian Gulf - and trying to pin down what every nation thinks its territorial waters should be has led to more conflicts than anything else.
It is entirely possible for a boat to be simultaneously in Saudi, Qatari and Iranian territorial waters at one and the same time.

Sometimes those claimed boundaries lead to some tensions. I think we can all remember the multiple occasions The US and Libya got into disputes over whether or not the gulf of Sidra....more a case of the US wanting Libya to realize they cold go anywhere they want and put a carrier air wing off there shores PDQ if they kept poking the us with a stick. Libya sent up fighters F-14s shot down fighters, Lybya sends out a couple of gunboats,and a corvette...US sinks them...or shoots them up pretty good...

that's the extreme end of gun boat diplomacy. What the US/Turkey/Russia?China are up too lately is the military version of shooting angry stares at each other.and sending nasty posts on facebook in comparison to that. Not like India and Pakistan/ North South Korea who occasionally Send I hate you notes scrawled on artillery rounds...
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/civilians-killed-india-pakistan-exchange-fire-kashmir-150828074204835.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-southkorea-artillery-idUSKCN0QP0RO20150820

And if I recall when the US established a 200 mile exclusion zone for fishing fleets, the Chinese sent some warships to escort fishing boats..or threatened to...been a LONG tie since then and can't remember the details.

pushing and shoving matches are pretty common for nations. Sometimes they get bloody, other times the pushing and shoving is just an exercise to make a point and quickly dies down.....except for when border, boundry disputes lead to some rather regrettable actions..Such as the "War of the Stray dog." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incident_at_Petrich ...

Or depending on how you view events the War of 1812...fishing rights, territory disputes, and other factors led to the US getting it's butt handed to it when it pushed ..and the most powerful military in the world pushed back..hard....guess that's what happens when you pick a fight with the most powerful military/navy in the world....good lord what were they drinking when that idea was floated in the White House

The some sort of incidents could happen along Solomani rim, or Spinward Marches pretty regularly. Small scale engagements, nudging , missile exchanges..and the Government would step back and glare at one another. While the diplomats ran up some serious frequent flyer miles.

Incidents like the US Expeditionary force into Mexico, could occur with depressing regularity into Aslan or Vargr territories if there was a sudden uptick in raid by either group.

a few ships and a few thousand casualties might not even be enough to cause Major powers from going to war. The US and Russia have shot down more than one of the others aircraft over the years, and it was just a diplomatic incident with some diplomats burning up the hotlines, and scrambling to get the right spin on the story back home.

Maybe I should add a few more Diplomatic Cruisers/Couriers to my list of projects...

 

[Condottiere]

Iceland won the Cod Wars against the Royal Navy, just by pushing and shoving.

My take on the Solomani has them flying Bears along their borders, or over them.

 

[wbnc]

Iceland won the Cod Wars against the Royal Navy, just by pushing and shoving.

My take on the Solomani has them flying Bears along their borders, or over them.

Someties a bit of pushing and shoving is required to get both sides to pay attention, or demonstrate that the matter is one to be taken seriously.....or so it seems.

Yeah, I can see the Solomani pulling that maneuver.

I think the Zhodanni would be more prone to running Goodwill Cruises through friendly independent worlds, just to let them know that the consulate was always ready to protect them in the face of Imperium aggression. And if the Imperium just happens to find out about those friendly visits from intelligence or scouts, all the better....those cruises might also let the local know.."We can also protect OUR own interests....and keep you form getting to cozy with the other side."

 

[Condottiere]

 

[wbnc]

Well that's one way to do it...and no one turns down a visit by a floating hospital.

 

[phavoc]

The irony of the US pushing for open sea lanes, but NOT signing UNCLOS is not missed on a lot of folks. I sometimes dislike the arrogance of the US and it's pushing of rules and the rule of law on others, yet not always doing the same itself. I would find it hard to argue with a straight face for these things when my own nation won't sign the damn thing due to internal political bickering.

At the bottom of the Wiki article is a map of those who aren't signatories - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

 

[Rick]

The irony of the US pushing for open sea lanes, but NOT signing UNCLOS is not missed on a lot of folks. I sometimes dislike the arrogance of the US and it's pushing of rules and the rule of law on others, yet not always doing the same itself. I would find it hard to argue with a straight face for these things when my own nation won't sign the damn thing due to internal political bickering.

At the bottom of the Wiki article is a map of those who aren't signatories - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Don't be too quick to dismiss it all as internal bickering - US military have the means to back up a 'might makes right' foreign policy. They could sail within a country's territorial waters because they are not a signatory to the extended boundary and refuse to acknowledge them, whilst enforcing them around the USA because, obviously, the other nation is a signatory and must abide by it. This may work until another country has the means to call that bluff.

 

[phavoc]

The irony of the US pushing for open sea lanes, but NOT signing UNCLOS is not missed on a lot of folks. I sometimes dislike the arrogance of the US and it's pushing of rules and the rule of law on others, yet not always doing the same itself. I would find it hard to argue with a straight face for these things when my own nation won't sign the damn thing due to internal political bickering.

At the bottom of the Wiki article is a map of those who aren't signatories - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Don't be too quick to dismiss it all as internal bickering - US military have the means to back up a 'might makes right' foreign policy. They could sail within a country's territorial waters because they are not a signatory to the extended boundary and refuse to acknowledge them, whilst enforcing them around the USA because, obviously, the other nation is a signatory and must abide by it. This may work until another country has the means to call that bluff.

The REASONS for not signing the treat are purely political. But if the US is pushing the rule of law around the world, it does smack of hypocrisy to not be wiling to sign the same treaties. The still observe it, however. There are some people in the Senate who think the US should be above the rest of the world by not signing some treaties.

 

[Condottiere]

Also, just in case they have to break it, the Americans can't get dragged to some UN sponsored court and sued. And if they do, they can just ignore it.