Torps too powerful!

[Chas]

No question mark on this title. We've just made torps more PD resistant. Now even if we forget the multiple warhead torp that we are hoping gets a nerf and only consider the plasma torp

We have ship size:
50,000 tons = 20,000 hull points
75,000 tons = 30,000 hull points
100,000 tons = 40,000 hull points

Now let's look at rough relative weapon effectiveness at 5k tons of bay weaponry, 50 medium bays.
Non torp bays = 1DD (if we allow nuclear dampers to nerf fusions) = 1,750 hull pts
Torp bays = 6DD (ignoring results from PD) = 10,500 (before PD)

That is a massive difference. If we allow fusions to work (and kill any other energy weapon in bay as an option) and we have 3,500 hull points for 5 ktons of weapons. Still huge difference.

But at 10,500 hull points/salve this is where spinals want to be or effectively are. 5 K tons of torp bays will have cruisers destroyed in a couple of turns.

Fights will only be about firing torps once in range.

I'd like to suggest to start with that the Torp range is reduced to Long with -6 on hits at Very Long. It might not even hurt to make this medium and -6 to hit at long if we persist with the very very high damage values. Logical in the sense torps are big warhead not fuel.

Obviously torps should do more than energy weapons given
- they are ammo
- they are affected to a degree by PD

But shirley twice to three times should be the relative value? Torps doing about 4-6,000 hull points on the 5k salvo for those that get through?

Need to crunch some numbers on the current effectiveness on PD...

 

[phavoc]

Oh noes! The Romulans are coming!!

This may be where we have to come up with a counter to the torpedo - a real point-defense turret that, for example, can engage and destroy say 6 missiles or 3 torps per turn. I haven't been a big fan of the point defense battery since that kind of goes against the idea of point defense being spread out... and if you are spreading out the 'battery', why not just use turrets?

Anti-missile defenses SHOULD BE tough to crack. That only makes a lot of sense. Keep in mind the stuff we are talking about here is for full-blown naval combat between true combatants, not sub-2k (or even 1k) adventure-class ships. BUT, assuming you go with that idea, leaving missiles and torps being quite deadly means that IF you get through a ships defenses, you will do some serious damage.

All this just means balanced ships have a true place on the battlefield. If one side brings a torp-fleet up against a more balance fleet, the balanced fleet can shoot down the torps but the torp fleet can't shoot down the beams - assuming everything else being equal.

Damn... I really need to do some designs to test these theories out.

 

[Chas]

Easy to up the weight a bit.

 

[AndrewW]

I haven't been a big fan of the point defense battery since that kind of goes against the idea of point defense being spread out... and if you are spreading out the 'battery', why not just use turrets?

It does consist of multiple turrets, combined and specialized for point defence. You can of course use regular turrets instead.

 

[Nerhesi]

I think theyre actually ok - I'm more worried about missiles (numbers).

I think with PD batteries getting that slight change (I proposed) and dedicated picket ships using triple pulse lasers to protect other ships, torpedoes may need all the help they can get. It'll also be interesting to see how we treat Mass EW because I'm seeing a bunch of EW fighters/smallcraft jamming like mad right now (multiple salvos)

Single Salvos are massively affected by PD.

Assuming the medium bay (most efficient) launching 6 torpedos. That is a 100tons (60 at best) and 1 hardpoint.
A single triple turret from a nearby ship running PD is taking out 2-3 torps.
EW and evasion and dodge also take a toll - granted less of so depending on how massive the single salvo is.

I actually like the fact that you pretty much need PD to deal with missiles. Perhaps we also need some rules on how do firmpoints interact with missiles as PD if possible.

 

[Chas]

I'm happy to take your word for the effectiveness of PD. An issue with PD balance is that it will be tricky to decide what is a median PD. Certainly we don't want it too effective.

From what I'm seeing in builds ships will be using software for their pulse laser PD and we can use that as a basis for setting the skill effect.