Torpedo & Missiles

[Captain Brann]

Hi
In the High Guard book it says that Torpedo's are defended against just like missiles.
My question is as a torpedo is 30 times bigger than a missile shouldn't it take more tan a hit to destroy it.

I know it has a bigger warhead and I presume they have the same range/thrust as a missile so they should require to at least take 5 hits to destroy.


I would like toi know what others think.

 

[rust]

My question is as a torpedo is 30 times bigger than a missile shouldn't it take more tan a hit to destroy it.

It is not necessary to destroy the torpedo, only to damage it enough to
make it useless as a weapon. And since a torpedo consists of vital sys-
tems only (drive, targeting sensors, flight computer, warhead), any hit
on a torpedo will be a hit on a vital system.
Therefore I think that a single hit on a torpedo is indeed quite enough to
neutralize it.

 

[Captain Brann]

My question is as a torpedo is 30 times bigger than a missile shouldn't it take more tan a hit to destroy it.

It is not necessary to destroy the torpedo, only to damage it enough to
make it useless as a weapon. And since a torpedo consists of vital sys-
tems only (drive, targeting sensors, flight computer, warhead), any hit
on a torpedo will be a hit on a vital system.
Therefore I think that a single hit on a torpedo is indeed quite enough to
neutralize it.

Hi
Actually with the speeds the torpedo and ship are traveling at not destroying it would be a bad idea as it would do damage when it hit anyway. It might not do its full dam but it would hurt. As it is so much bigger I would have thought it was armored any way.

 

[rust]

Actually with the speeds the torpedo and ship are traveling at not destroying it would be a bad idea as it would do damage when it hit anyway.

Unless the torpedo was fired at a very short distance and against a very
big target, I am quite certain that any hit on the torpedo would have suf-
ficient impact to change its flight path and make it miss the target.

 

[BP]

As rust mentioned - the vital parts are all largely effecting the guidance or warhead. A hit at such speed should effect the trajectory - it won't take much to miss most Traveller sized ships.

And if the impact is explosive in some fashion, it should negate most of the concentrated mass and result in numerous trajectories - yielding a debris style impact.

A collateral damage probability/quantity might be more realistic, but seem excessive for this style of rollplay.

 

[Corvus]

any hit on the torpedo would have sufficient impact to change its flight path and make it miss the target

It needn't change its flight path. If the target has any manoeuver at all, even a fraction of a G, it will be kilometres away by the time the missile hulk arrives.

 

[phavoc]

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:57 pm Post subject:

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Quote:
any hit on the torpedo would have sufficient impact to change its flight path and make it miss the target

It needn't change its flight path. If the target has any manoeuver at all, even a fraction of a G, it will be kilometres away by the time the missile hulk arrives.


Actually, if the torpedo contained a bomb-pumped X-ray laser, knocking it off course a few kilometers would have no effect. Even a hundred kilometers would be nothing for a light-speed weapon (assuming it still had a solid target lock - then its just regular chance to miss).

Only if the warhead contained a warhead that was designed to impact directly or very close to its target would knocking it away a bit have any effect. In my mind, getting a direct hit on a starship with a torpedo is probably less effective than launching something that will engage at range, thus rendering point defense less effective.

If you read the Honor Harrington series, there are some good chapters in there talking about starship missile combat and the difference between bomb-pumped and contact detonation nukes. Bomb-pumped are common since the technology is superior, but contact nukes still pack the most punch, though they have almost no chance against modern point-defense.

 

[Infojunky]

Hi
In the High Guard book it says that Torpedo's are defended against just like missiles.
My question is as a torpedo is 30 times bigger than a missile shouldn't it take more tan a hit to destroy it.

I know it has a bigger warhead and I presume they have the same range/thrust as a missile so they should require to at least take 5 hits to destroy.

Naw one hit would do it, a torp is only 2.5 dTons, so it effectively has 0 hull and 0 structure.

 

[The Chef]

I thought a torp was 5 tons,

iirc, the weight is mention in the torp sidebar in highguard for a barbette, which are sold in 2s and are 5tons each.

now i took that the minimum order was 2, but they weigh 5tons each, not as a pair, however, if i am wrong then great as i am having trouble with a ship i am building being too heavy at the moment and needs tweaking

chef

 

[AndrewW]

I thought a torp was 5 tons,

iirc, the weight is mention in the torp sidebar in highguard for a barbette, which are sold in 2s and are 5tons each.

now i took that the minimum order was 2, but they weigh 5tons each, not as a pair, however, if i am wrong then great as i am having trouble with a ship i am building being too heavy at the moment and needs tweaking

chef

A Torpedo Barbette takes 5 tons without any ammunition.

Each torpedo takes up two and half tons of space. They are normally purchased in two-shot loads of five tons each. A barbette holds two torpedoes.

Might be able to use higher technology version of some of the stuff on the ship to reduce the weight.

 

[The Chef]

Hi Andrew, thanks for putting me straight.

no trying to make a TL12 escort destroyer that wouldn't look too out of place in BSG. so far ammo is taking up a lot of room. at least now i can decrease the room of my torps by half.

Chef

 

[AndrewW]

no trying to make a TL12 escort destroyer that wouldn't look too out of place in BSG. so far ammo is taking up a lot of room. at least now i can decrease the room of my torps by half.

Chef

Can still reduce some weapons and armour at TL 12.

 

[dmccoy1693]

All a point defense laser really needs is enough energy to ignite the warhead early. We can do that now with our current tech (granted not at those speeds, but we do do that in iraq and afg.

 

[BP]

I thought a torp was 5 tons,

iirc, the weight is mention in the torp sidebar in highguard for a barbette, which are sold in 2s and are 5tons each.

From HG pg 49 - 'Each torpedo takes up two and half tons of space.'
Goes on to state that a barbette holds 2 torps and they are typically bought in pairs (for 5 tons total per each pair).

(BTW: the bad grammar in the quote is not mine - credit for that goes to the editor of HG :wink.

 

[The Chef]

Thanks Andrew and BP, revisited my plans last night and low and behold they work now!

and thanks for the reduced size for tl as well, that helped a lot. tonight i will post the details for you all to critique it, as this would be my first bigish ship for traveller and i'm not sure the maths are right

Chef

 

[Infojunky]

All a point defense laser really needs is enough energy to ignite the warhead early. We can do that now with our current tech (granted not at those speeds, but we do do that in iraq and afg.

Well the fluff in the book the states that the standard torp is a Kinetic Kill Device.

 

[dmccoy1693]

All a point defense laser really needs is enough energy to ignite the warhead early. We can do that now with our current tech (granted not at those speeds, but we do do that in iraq and afg.

Well the fluff in the book the states that the standard torp is a Kinetic Kill Device.

Oh yea. I use the bomb-pumped as my standard torp in my home game (I like things to go boom).

 

[Infojunky]

All a point defense laser really needs is enough energy to ignite the warhead early. We can do that now with our current tech (granted not at those speeds, but we do do that in iraq and afg.

Well the fluff in the book the states that the standard torp is a Kinetic Kill Device.

Oh yea. I use the bomb-pumped as my standard torp in my home game (I like things to go boom).

Heh! :twisted:

Have you considered using the sandcasters to pump out Bomb-Pumped submutions?

 

[Maccat]

For the life of me I cannot tell at what range the point defense occurs, also because of the "stand off" capability of the bomb-pumped Laser torpedoes, is it further? There's something saying sand is as effective as lasers at medium range or greater, so my guess is PD is/starts at medium range. Then I wonder do you get another try before it hits the next round as well for that matter?

 

[BP]

For the life of me I cannot tell at what range the point defense occurs, also because of the "stand off" capability of the bomb-pumped Laser torpedoes, is it further? There's something saying sand is as effective as lasers at medium range or greater, so my guess is PD is/starts at medium range. Then I wonder do you get another try before it hits the next round as well for that matter?

Sandcasters are optimal at Close Range [Core pg 148] - Point Defense is defined on Core pg 149.

From HG pg 50 - 'effective as lasers as long as the missile ... is fired from at least medium range.' From the range table I would figure that this means there is enough time to check when missile within short range - if fired at leass than medium there is no time for sandcaster to be effective. There is no mention on whether any of the other rounds are effective or not against missiles. So as taken all rounds are equally as effective as laser fire...

Pebbles and Sandcutter munitions don't have any special range notes, but Chaff is limited to Close range.

Hope this helps...