far-trader
Mongoose
rust said:
It might at that.
TL 16 Starships
- Thread starter atpollard
- Start date
It might at that.
Which is all I ask of my science fiction 8)far-trader said:I'll buy that
As an aside, generally 'heat' is simply a result of conversion of potential that already existed in a system - no net energy/matter is created (assuming no extra forces such as active acceleration). Thus the possibility (related to a sci-fi game and its scale) that the 'heat' (emissions) can be contained or otherwise converted into other stored forms of energy/matter and thermal 'stealth' can be achieved for given durations doesn't stretch my suspenders of disbelief to any real extent. [However, I will leave the whole injecting tons of H2 instantly into an inflated parallel universe thing alone... I'm partial to a 90 degree universe, as it would just seem more 'right' :lol:]
Emperor Herdan
Mongoose
BP said:
You also might check with the MGT Darrian racial book (Module 3?).
I remember a comment about at TL16 the fuel requirements were halved (e.g. J6 required a 30% fuel volume rather than a 60%). Sadly at work and not able to access the book in question. Take whats implied there for any designs (so to help with consistency... (whats that? smile))
Take care
E. Herdan
far-trader
Mongoose
Speaking of tractors, MT (iirc) had repulsors before tractors (TL16 or lower I seem to recall), and effective vs missiles. Did MgT HG (or another book) add them? Might be a good add to the defense matrix.
far-trader
Mongoose
atpollard said:
To a degree I agree. And the whole Berserker post was half tongue in cheek. Half seriously too though. There should be more automation and remote combat vehicles, especially so for the outlined scenario. The Imperium is rich in that bodies are cheap and training them apparently beats the other factors. Not so for the suggested polity.
So maybe not Berserkers but certainly remotely piloted fighters at the very least to stand-off combat. The remotely piloted fighters are the line (in old CT HG parlance) while the base ships (carriers) stay in the rear safe from attack unless or until the line is breached (presumably at which point they concede the fight and jump out, to win the war another day).
As much as anything it was an attempt and suggestion to think outside the box. The technology is there but not everyone is using it to the fullest.
Two questions:
1. Black Globes: Can anyone figure out the HG rules for Black Globes?
I got as far as understanding that for a M4/J4/PP4 ship, the PP would support up to two units (-100 dT; 200 MCr) with a 30% flicker rate providing +6 points of armor … but I’ll be *darned* if I can follow the design example and figure out how many tons of capacitors a JD-4 has on a 200 dT ship … 20% … 3000 dT on a 30,000 dT J4 ship … Argh! … <bang head> <bang head> <bang head>
And the ship can't move normally, can't shoot normally, and will explode if it absorbs too much damage - yup, Black Globes still *leave much to be desired*.
2. With 16 points of armor, is there a laser weapon that poses a threat?
If not, then why install reflec at all?
1. Black Globes: Can anyone figure out the HG rules for Black Globes?
I got as far as understanding that for a M4/J4/PP4 ship, the PP would support up to two units (-100 dT; 200 MCr) with a 30% flicker rate providing +6 points of armor … but I’ll be *darned* if I can follow the design example and figure out how many tons of capacitors a JD-4 has on a 200 dT ship … 20% … 3000 dT on a 30,000 dT J4 ship … Argh! … <bang head> <bang head> <bang head>
And the ship can't move normally, can't shoot normally, and will explode if it absorbs too much damage - yup, Black Globes still *leave much to be desired*.
2. With 16 points of armor, is there a laser weapon that poses a threat?
If not, then why install reflec at all?
I seem to remember the plan to be build up a great big lump of speed (the player was planning on slingshotting round something), then switch it on at the last moment. Hopefully you will be able to get through and past without taking too much fire. This is assuming:
a) you use acceleration not constant thrust
b) they cannot accelerate fast enough to catch you in time.
It's risky, but it would have been hilarious I think... it never actually happened though.
a) you use acceleration not constant thrust
b) they cannot accelerate fast enough to catch you in time.
It's risky, but it would have been hilarious I think... it never actually happened though.
The slingshot was starting going away, then coming back around the planet and through the enemy forces. So they would have been accelerating in the wrong direction to catch you...
Now I really consider it, it relies on a lot of coincidences too work... but when it does, i bet it'd be a story to tell your grand-kids about
Now I really consider it, it relies on a lot of coincidences too work... but when it does, i bet it'd be a story to tell your grand-kids about
Updated 200 dT Military Scout Ship (TL 16).
Base Hull = +200 dT = +8 Mcr
+Streamlined = -0 dT = +0.8 MCr
+Bonded Superdense Armor 16 = -26.7 dT = +9.6 MCr (10% TL 16 discount)
+Self Sealing = -0 dT = +14 MCr (30% TL 16 discount)
+Stealth = -0 dT = +15 MCr (25% TL 16 discount)
+Radiation Shielding = -0 dT = +50 MCr
+TL 16 Hull = -0 dT = +8 MCr
TL 16 SCOUT SHIP (200 dT)
FINAL HULL (-26.7 dT; 105.4 MCr)
Remaining space = 173.3 dT
Statistics and Benefits
16 points of armor
-4 DM on Sensor rolls (stealth)
-1000 rads crew exposure (Rad Shield)
+6 Armor (22) vs Radiation Damage (Rad Shield)
Hull Points = 8 (Adv TL)
Structure Points = 8 (Adv TL)
Base Hull = +200 dT = +8 Mcr
+Streamlined = -0 dT = +0.8 MCr
+Bonded Superdense Armor 16 = -26.7 dT = +9.6 MCr (10% TL 16 discount)
+Self Sealing = -0 dT = +14 MCr (30% TL 16 discount)
+Stealth = -0 dT = +15 MCr (25% TL 16 discount)
+Radiation Shielding = -0 dT = +50 MCr
+TL 16 Hull = -0 dT = +8 MCr
TL 16 SCOUT SHIP (200 dT)
FINAL HULL (-26.7 dT; 105.4 MCr)
Remaining space = 173.3 dT
Statistics and Benefits
16 points of armor
-4 DM on Sensor rolls (stealth)
-1000 rads crew exposure (Rad Shield)
+6 Armor (22) vs Radiation Damage (Rad Shield)
Hull Points = 8 (Adv TL)
Structure Points = 8 (Adv TL)
As far as I can tell, CSC merely mentions them on pg 8 - 'main new technology at TL 16 is the tractor, a reverse repulsor.'far-trader said:
Not that it ain't likely more details are scattered in some other place...
I've heard that CSC is largely a rehash of some older material (esp. a T20 draft) - so this may be an editing artifact. Or maybe its just there to differentiate a 'tractor' from a John Deere
Of course, I've also found no stats (mass, credits, operation info) - but hopefully someone can find it in the books. (Maybe Darrians?)
BP said:
I finally read much of the Central Supply Catalog. While it lists generalities for higher TLs, I could find no details on the actual items (like Anti-Particle Beam Sandcasters for example). This is not so much a criticism of the CSC (since it is, after all, a book of 'personal' equipment rather than starship design) but to point out an area hinted at but still undressed in Mongoose Traveller.
The TL 15 description of black globes make them barely useful, IMO. They remind me of the early biplane machine guns where the planes would shoot off their own propellers. So when do Black Globes get an 'interupter gear' so a ship can fire out thru a black globe without taking damage from its own weapons? As presented, Black Globes are too much like a bad prototype of a shield. I want to look hard at Black Globes - I would very much like someone to convince me that they are worth having - but right now I am skeptical that they are a net benefit outside of 100,000+ dTon ships with lots of space to spare and huge Jump Capacitors to absorb damage/energy.
I very much liked the CSC data on upgrading and customizing 'stuff' but was a little disappointed that it was presented as a completely random design process for a one-off object. It holds 90% of what a ref would need for designing customized stuff but omits the critical 10% that would allow the ref to balance the tradeoffs. Using the tables, a wealthy, skilled and lucky character could create a 'Super' item (superior in EVERY way) and mass produce it, but balancing lighter/heavier vs. better performance vs cheaper/expensive is just a matter of luck.
Antimatter prototype power plants would definitely be worth considering for a TL 16 Military ship. However, given the assumed 'risk aversion' of THIS particular pocket empire, I think that they would wait until TL 17 and the AM PP is proven safe and reliable.
Initially, no. In theory an especially accurate barrage with lasers could hurt a capital ship, but with a net armour/damage -15 DM for Beam lasers and -14 for Pulse Lasers, it's a fairly remote chance unless you have Luke Skywalker in the turret control with Deep Thought on board running the Fire Control software.
However, any sustained fight is likely to see a ship suffer quite a pounding, which may well include numerous armour hits. The problem is that once the armour drops enough, the beam/pulse laser turrets that are mounted on the enemy ship for missile point defence suddenly become able to hurt you. And there's generally a LOT of them!
Reflec just delays the point at which this becomes a threat - and since it only costs credits instead of space, with the rules as described in the OP you might as well.
RE: CSC advanced TLs - Yes there is very little detail... you are, after all, intentionally designing something outside the setting's nominal max TL.
This means there are no 'standard' stats - each design can be different and yet still be compatible with official material by using only the tech listed, or applying other penalties (as in the 'riskier' AM power plant) based on the exceptional TL.
Regards using AM in the quality minded culture - your call - of course, I would assume they would have backup PP anyway.
As to the black globe - it should be gleamed from the rules that they are primarily intended in a defensive posture. During combat they provide extra armour in flicker mode (and capacitors are easily added plus the jump ones - for ships of equivalent scale this is well done). They also defend against all weapons (like mesons) - something other tech can't do by themselves.
The full black globe mode is balanced by largely being desirable only before combat and sensor detection, with limited case uses during combat (i.e. a scout engaged against a much larger naval vessel waiting for rescue). Bear in mind, as long as it has enough capacitors, it can survive any attack - purely defensively.
From a roleplay aspect, is quite likely that a lower TL aggressor would have little knowledge of the weaknesses of a black globe.
This means there are no 'standard' stats - each design can be different and yet still be compatible with official material by using only the tech listed, or applying other penalties (as in the 'riskier' AM power plant) based on the exceptional TL.
Regards using AM in the quality minded culture - your call - of course, I would assume they would have backup PP anyway.
As to the black globe - it should be gleamed from the rules that they are primarily intended in a defensive posture. During combat they provide extra armour in flicker mode (and capacitors are easily added plus the jump ones - for ships of equivalent scale this is well done). They also defend against all weapons (like mesons) - something other tech can't do by themselves.
The full black globe mode is balanced by largely being desirable only before combat and sensor detection, with limited case uses during combat (i.e. a scout engaged against a much larger naval vessel waiting for rescue). Bear in mind, as long as it has enough capacitors, it can survive any attack - purely defensively.
From a roleplay aspect, is quite likely that a lower TL aggressor would have little knowledge of the weaknesses of a black globe.
barnest2 said:
No, unless I misunderstood the description, the Black Globe in flicker mode works EXACTLY like a biplane without an interrupter gear. At 20% Flicker most of my shots will pass thru the BG and attack the enemy, but 20% will hit the Black Globe and be applied to my capacitors.
HighGuard_p50 said:
BP said:RE: CSC advanced TLs - Yes there is very little detail... you are, after all, intentionally designing something outside the setting's nominal max TL.
... unless you are Darrian.
I would completely agree if Mongoose had not made such a big deal about pointing out that Traveller was a general rule system and different from "The Third Imperium". If we let the non-"previous Traveller" stuff slide because Traveller is bigger than the Third Imperium, then they need to be held acountable for mentioning a TL and its equipment without providing the details to use it. ... and why the heck can you generate TL 17+ worlds if the TL 'rules' stop at TL 15?
That is what interested me about this thought experiment. Worlds higher than TL 15 can be generated and will exist under the Mongoose Traveller rules, so what WILL their ships be like?
