Thief's Companion - August 2009
- Thread starter Strom
- Start date
Rambonan! Classic.
I have to give the artist some kudos for choosing to draw such an awkward image. Rambonan is choking some masked guard wielding a halberd with his right hand and at the same time he is slitting the throat of another masked guard wielding a halberd with his left hand. Add to that scenario the second masked guard has a thick gold nose ring that Rambonan is seriosly checking out....
Man, there is a lot going on....I say keep it simple.
I would've just had Conan standing on a huge pile of corpses while some scantily clad babe hugs his left leg... 8)
I have to give the artist some kudos for choosing to draw such an awkward image. Rambonan is choking some masked guard wielding a halberd with his right hand and at the same time he is slitting the throat of another masked guard wielding a halberd with his left hand. Add to that scenario the second masked guard has a thick gold nose ring that Rambonan is seriosly checking out....
Man, there is a lot going on....I say keep it simple.
I would've just had Conan standing on a huge pile of corpses while some scantily clad babe hugs his left leg... 8)
Strom said:
Haven't I seen that somewhere...?
Oh, yes. Here you go
And the link for a bigger version:http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1849/50961710.jpg
Mongoose_Will
Mongoose
Jacek said:Strom said:
Haven't I seen that somewhere...?
Oh, yes. Here you go
And the link for a bigger version:http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/1849/50961710.jpg
Hmmm good idea
Chcek out this topic then:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40234
The only news is there's not gonna be fresh news till November, I guess.
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=40234
The only news is there's not gonna be fresh news till November, I guess.
I must say that while artwork isn't very important to me at all, I'd prefer a plain cover to the proposed one. The expressions on the character's faces are just terrible. And Conan appears to have had waves put in his hair. Nice but hardly Cimmerian... I'm sure the artist in question is skilled, but I'd say either he/she's had too little time to work on the cover or the subject matter isn't really his/her forte.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Demetrio said:
I think his or her skill is debatable. The muscles on the left forearm do not look right. I'd argue the mucles on the whole arm are not correct for the action shown. Every time I try to mimic the pose (but swinging my left like it has a heavy sword) my torso twists - it isn't straight on as he painted it. Also - why is Rambonan swinging his sword with his left hand?
Something is wrong with the right hand pole-arm - the way it fits between the guard's chest and Rambonan's right arm. Also, although the man has a shadow behind him, neither Rambonan nor the weapon casts a shadow on the front of the man. The light source is very bright on Rambonan's back, but not as bright on the guards, their weapons, the shocked statue/column, or on the thief hanging from the rope.
I also think the painting is too bright. Look at the AD&D PH posted earlier and how shadowy and dark it is... that is atmospheric and mysterious. There is no mystery in the painting this artist gives us for the Thief book.
The whole musculature is off for the action depicted. The wavy hair and Stallone-like face is also distracting. I am left wondering if the artist has ever read an REH story - or if he has ever taken a class in anatomy for artists. Any way I look at it, it is a poor painting. I hope Mongoose hires Chris Quilliams to replace it since the work is apparently going to be delayed anyway.
If it had been me, I would have painted a scene implied in "The God in the Bowl" - a scene with Conan sneaking through Kallian Publico's Temple, the great museum and antique house of Numalia, just prior to Arus's discovery. Perhaps the scene could have shown Conan dropping down from the trap door in the roof, holding the diagram Aztrias Petanius gave him to show the location of the Zamorian goblet.
So far, the only non-Quilliams art I have liked in this line was the cover for Tales of the Black Kingdoms. It might be worth hiring him again. That was a pretty darn good cover.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
Mr Darlage
With the greatest of respect, I don't think it beneficial to pull apart, piece by piece, artwork or any kind of creative endeavour. Musculature, depiction of torsos, etc., are, for the most part, a matter of interpretation. Reality is in the eye of the beholder, and it takes all kinds to interpret the world. We all do do it through our individual perception.
That said, we can certainly decide to not like something, I just think its not going to do the artists ego any good to pick something apart like this. Im sure, you, as a writer, are aware of the stinging nature of criticism, something which creative types have to live with. I just don't think theres any point in a blow by blow account of why a person thinks a picture is inherently 'wrong'. Its a matter of opinion, surely. I'm not keen on it, but I can respect a guy trying. The situation reminds me, slightly, of a certain artist called Dobyski who worked on the RQ stuff for Avalon Hill. Man, he was crucified, and I don't like to see that happen, regardless of what we all think, artists are people too!
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Well, not to belabour the point, but if someone doesn't like my work, I would rather know why the person doesn't like it than just a generic "I don't like it." Knowing exactly why someone doesn't like it helps me improve. I cannot improve with a generic "I don't like it."
Since I prefer exact examples of problems with my own writing, I always offer the same when I criticize someone else's work. If I wasn't willing to take criticism, I wouldn't put my work out for public display. If this artist wants to grow and improve, he needs to know what he is doing that causes me to dislike his work.
Others may like the things I dislike - and as an artist he has to decide whose points are more valid. I have to do that as well. I have been raked over the coals on a few things here on these boards and have used that to improve (hopefully). A few things people hate, others have liked, so I have had to decide who had the more valid point. Can't please everyone. However, I always appreciate an exact example of something, than a generic, "well, I didn't like it." Because that is what I want out of criticism, that is what I offer.
At any rate, it is just an opinion. The artist can take it or leave it. Since he was hired, and the piece was accepted by Mongoose, someone must like the style and the work, so it isn't like my opinion is the final word on the subject. I am sure the artist can find plenty of opinions quite the opposite of mine.
An example of this is in our differing opinions of musculature. I think muscles in art should reflect what muscles actually look like, not made-up muscles. I don't think muscles and how the human body twists and moves is a matter of personal interpretation, but a set of rules on how the body works.
That said, if you find my criticism of that piece offensive, I can always delete it for you.
Since I prefer exact examples of problems with my own writing, I always offer the same when I criticize someone else's work. If I wasn't willing to take criticism, I wouldn't put my work out for public display. If this artist wants to grow and improve, he needs to know what he is doing that causes me to dislike his work.
Others may like the things I dislike - and as an artist he has to decide whose points are more valid. I have to do that as well. I have been raked over the coals on a few things here on these boards and have used that to improve (hopefully). A few things people hate, others have liked, so I have had to decide who had the more valid point. Can't please everyone. However, I always appreciate an exact example of something, than a generic, "well, I didn't like it." Because that is what I want out of criticism, that is what I offer.
At any rate, it is just an opinion. The artist can take it or leave it. Since he was hired, and the piece was accepted by Mongoose, someone must like the style and the work, so it isn't like my opinion is the final word on the subject. I am sure the artist can find plenty of opinions quite the opposite of mine.
An example of this is in our differing opinions of musculature. I think muscles in art should reflect what muscles actually look like, not made-up muscles. I don't think muscles and how the human body twists and moves is a matter of personal interpretation, but a set of rules on how the body works.
That said, if you find my criticism of that piece offensive, I can always delete it for you.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
As a professional artist (academic portraits), I have to say Vincent is correct in the way artists view criticism—specific reasons for dislike are much more useful than vague antipathy.
That said, I really think it's quite poor (Vincent said everything I would mention, apart from that merely adding black to create a shadow tone is really a bad idea...).
The Conan cover I liked best (by any artist) was 'Tales of the Black Kingdom'.
That said, I really think it's quite poor (Vincent said everything I would mention, apart from that merely adding black to create a shadow tone is really a bad idea...).
The Conan cover I liked best (by any artist) was 'Tales of the Black Kingdom'.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
Lord High Munchkin said:
That was a great cover in many ways. I have wondered why he (Kieran Yanner) hasn't done more of the Conan covers. It had hints of ruins, two atmospheric people, a nicely realized lioness and... it was just well done.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Kieran Yanner also did the cover for 'Tito's Trading Post'—although the internal credit is given as "Martin Hanford"... which is a tad naughty on Mongoose's part!!!
I suspect the problem is cost—someone like Kieran Yanner might well be more expensive than Mongoose can afford (on a regular basis).
I suspect the problem is cost—someone like Kieran Yanner might well be more expensive than Mongoose can afford (on a regular basis).
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
That cover was well-done too. I didn't realize it was the same artist because of the internal credit.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
Well, it didn't offend me, I just like to remind people sometimes that extreme, in depth, criticism of someones work, isn't always as beneficial as you may think. Unless, of course, the artist actually askes you for it. If you give it unsolicited, its never very helpful.
We can all be savage, and I personally think about that piece of art, that the artist has no concept whatsoever of anatomy, colour, the chosen medium, composition or veiwer angle or depth, and, in my opinion, shows no signs of ever being able to grasp the basics of visual creation, and, shouldn't, really, expect to make a career out of it.
Does that help him? Probably not. Its just another piece of unsolicited criticism. I could savage it some more, but I have to question whether that would be helpful to the artist, or whether it would just be making me feel better.
VincentDarlage
Mongoose
PrinceYyrkoon said:
Probably the last segment of your criticism is unhelpful. I would hate to be judged on a single work whether or not I should 'make a career out of it.' Obviously he is good enough to make sales - but this particular piece is horrid. I don't even know who the artist is, so I don't know what else he has done, so I can't compare this piece with others. However, most of your other points give him reasons why this piece fails.
Another side of it is this: If Mongoose knows exactly what the customers like and dislike, that also helps them decide which artists to use and how to direct them. So even if it doesn't help the artist, it may help Mongoose's art director and management.
PrinceYyrkoon
Mongoose
VincentDarlage said:
I guess you're right. I was just thinking of the anti-Dobyski campaign, I wouldn't have been surprised if that guy had topped himself! Imagine what this guy will feel like though, to have a guy who writes Conan stuff slag his Conan cover off!
Yeah, theres too much bad art in the world, we don't need any more of it. Maybe we have to be cruel to be kind.
