Theleb K'aarna and Yishana

[midway]

In the Elric saga, in one of the scenes featuring Theleb K'aarna and Queen Yishana, there's an interesting line.

It's in a description of why Yishana likes to tease and torment her lover Theleb K'aarna, something to the effect that she gets off on the danger arising out of the fact that due to his sorcerous powers, Theleb could destroy her with a short incantation of some kind.

I was wondering what this might mean in game terms. Can a YK sorceror just straight out kill someone with a quick spell, D&D style?

Could he cast a quick rune to destroy her soul, or sanity, leaving her a drooling whimpering husk?

Or did she mean that he'd call up his demon pal - a caterpillar-boar with chicken wings - and that the summoned critter would rend her to bits?

How does this play out in Elric MRQ?

 

[Charles Green]

Bear in mind that someone like Yishana doesn't really know exactly how sorcery works. To her, it might be only a quick incantation, but she wouldn't see the lengthy summoning ritual that was involved in setting up a demon to respond to attack someone.

Also, there's a good chance that Theleb K'aarna really couldn't do it anyway, but allows a reputation of being able to do so precede him.

 

[Loz]

Could he cast a quick rune to destroy her soul, or sanity, leaving her a drooling whimpering husk?

Indeed he could. The Runes of Blight, Cold or Dissolution combined with the Rune of Woman would do the trick.... (see Magic of the Young Kingdoms).

She would, of course, gain a resistance test against Theleb K'aarna's skill in the Rune used and there's the little issue of Theleb being so utterly in love with Yishana that he simply couldn't bring himself to harm her: you could actually treat the devotion as Pact (Yishana) 95% - no dedicated POW, because she isn't a god - with his devotion to her acting as his Compulsion. To cause her harm, he'd need to fail a Pact test.

 

[midway]

Yes, I must get the Magic book, sounds cool...

It's funny, with the way the saga goes, there's not a whole lot of incentive to develop a romantic attachment with anyone.

Theleb and Yishana have such a terrible relationship, and let's not even get started on Elric's love problems. Come to think of it, isn't Yishana about the only girlfriend he didn't end up killing?

Is there some game mechanic whereby, besides deriving masochistic thrills from his one-sided relationship with Yishana, maybe Theleb gains some other benefit from loving her?

Maybe it's one of the few things keeping his feeble mabden soul from surrendering completely to Chaos (at least for a while)?

 

[Loz]

Is there some game mechanic whereby, besides deriving masochistic thrills from his one-sided relationship with Yishana, maybe Theleb gains some other benefit from loving her?

His love for Yishana drives him to dreadful jealousy against at least two lovers (Elric and an earlier lover from Imrryr, IIRC) prompting the whole cycle of revenge that leads to Theleb summoning the Kelmain, threatening Tanelorn, murdering Myshella and finally going cuckoo following the Bakshaan debacle - so no. I don't think there are any redemptive qualities in his love for Yishana at all! However you could use the Pact (Yishana) that I suggested earlier in one of two ways:

As a potential brake on his naturally vicious side (have him test against the Pact every time he's considering doing something utterly rotten, if Yishana's treating him nicely)

As a motivator for doing rotten things in Yishana's name (have him test against the Pact so that he can justify rotteness to himself, if Yishana's gven him a bit of a hard time lately).

You're bang-on about forming a romantic relationship where the saga is concerned. Unrequited love and love thwarted in the cruelest ways is a central theme, and I've tried to buld all manner of different ways to emulate romantic tragedy into the game mechanics.

Maybe it's one of the few things keeping his feeble mabden soul from surrendering completely to Chaos (at least for a while)?

Nah - Theleb K'aarna's bartered away so much of his soul for sorcerous power that he's spiritually and emotionally bankrupt long before he meets Yishana. If anything, his obsessiveness drives him towards his own doom; he embraces Chaos far more because of Yishana rather than in spite of her. I think you can have a certain amount of sympathy for him, for a while, but ultimately its he who decides to try to blot out Elric. Yishana doesn't command him to do any of the things he does and I'd argue that, even without Yishana, he'd have tried to annex Kaneloon and fallen foul of Elric, sooner or later...

Good debate, this!

 

[Loz]

Come to think of it, isn't Yishana about the only girlfriend he didn't end up killing?

There are some he hasn't killed...

Oone the Dreamthief; Sharilla of the Myrrhn; Countess Guye (though she's never cited as a lover, I wouldn't put it past him); Myshella (though Theleb K'aana does for her...). Cymoril and Zarozinia are the only two where he was directly responsible for their deaths.

But getting emotionally close to Elric generally isn't a good thing!

 

[tarkhan bey]

He does seem to be a bit of a liability, doesn't he?

 

[havercake lad]

Earl, Saxif D'aan, Elric's ancestor, wasn't the best chap to have as a lover either.
Come to think of it Elric's father didn't have much luck with women as well. Sadric lost his wife to childbirth and the human slave he calls ' my only consolation' comes to a sudden death.

 

[midway]

How about Hero Points for the characters for tragically lovelorn type behavior?

Didn't one of Elric's ancestors fall in love with a demon? That should be worth some points...

 

[Loz]

How about Hero Points for the characters for tragically lovelorn type behavior?

Didn't one of Elric's ancestors fall in love with a demon? That should be worth some points...

Certainly. Hero Points are in the GM's remit - gve them out for precisely this kind of thing.

I think the task of any GM running an Elric game is to capture the flavour of the Elric saga - which is doomy, filled with heroism, vile sorcery, the struggle between Law and Chaos and doomed love affairs. Tragic romance should be a key element of a game.

The ancestor of Elric's is Empress Terhali. Whether or not she actually fell in love with a demon is a great possibility to explore in a game (and you'll find that 'Cults of the Young Kingdoms' lets you do that). She was certainly the product of a Melnibonean/demon union.

 

[havercake lad]

How about Madness of Purpose for a single Hero Point, but its only useable in connection with tests concerrning aiding ( or harming ? ) their loved one ?
Maintaining a relationship in an action and doom packed campaign might well cost characters some sanity loss. ( Look what happens to Hawkmoon at the start of his secopnd saga ! ).
Perhaps chivalrous love is practised in a pantomine like form in some of the Young Kingdoms ?

 

[Loz]

I think there's scope for making Pacts of Love.

You don't sacrifice any POW, and the value of the Pact starts at something like your POW+CHA, plus the POW and CHA of the person you're in love with. So if my character with POW 12 and CHA 15 loves the Melnibonean sorceress Lady Sathril (POW 18 and CHA 16), then my starting Love (Sathril) would be 61%. It can develop like any other skill, and through acts that promote the depth of the relationship. It can also diminish if, say, Sathril was unfaithful. Unrequited love would actually strengthen the Love... and there's no obligation for the object of your love to love you back...

The Pact is a measure of your devotion to that person and can be used as a general guide to how deep the love is, and as a specific test for situations where your love might influence what you do or how you do something.

For instance, as an augmentation to a skill - the Critical Range of your Love Pact can be added to a combat skill if you;re fighting to defend your beloved (for eg, Elric has Love (Zarozinia) at 95% - this would give him +9% bonus to combat skills if he's fighting for defend Zarozinia's honour specifically). The GM would need to decide when such an augment is possible.

In fact... as I'm writing Cults of the YK, this might just find its way into the book...

 

[havercake lad]

Again, seems eminantly workable. Great stuff.. ( is this thread edging in to 'Pendragon' ? )

 

[Loz]

Again, seems eminantly workable. Great stuff.. ( is this thread edging in to 'Pendragon' ? )

Not only is it workable, its now written. Yes, it draws similarities with Pendragon and HeroQuest, but I think that the YK really does need a mechanic to reflect the deep passions adventurers in the saga seem to develop. The mechanics allow for bonuses to skills where love or hate might be influential, but also allow the skills themselves to be used in place of skills such as Persistence where Love or Hatred for something might be a more powerful factor in resisting something.

These mechanics will be included in the Cults of the YK book, but I've also submitted them to Signs and Portents because I believe they have a wider application. RQ has traditionally lacked systems dealing with social/conscience/passion conflicts or situations, and I hope that the system goes a little way to addressing that.

But for Elric, Hawkmoon and Corum... its ideal stuff.

Naturally, the mechanics are optional, but I reckon there's lots of mileage in Eternal Champion campaigns.

I'd like to thank Midway for kicking-off this thread. Without it, I wouldn't have found myself working on this material yesterday, so he deserves some plaudits for getting the creative ball rolling.

 

[Vagabond]

Didn't one of Elric's ancestors fall in love with a demon? That should be worth some points...

The ancestor of Elric's is Empress Terhali. Whether or not she actually fell in love with a demon is a great possibility to explore in a game (and you'll find that 'Cults of the Young Kingdoms' lets you do that). She was certainly the product of a Melnibonean/demon union.

The ancestor was Iuntric X, who was Terhali's father (an unnamed demon
was her mother, and apparently she had a brother named Sactric who
appears in one of the Corum tales with her).

-V

 

[midway]

Plaudits?

Awesome, I love those things!

 

[Loz]

The ancestor was Iuntric X, who was Terhali's father (an unnamed demon
was her mother, and apparently she had a brother named Sactric who
appears in one of the Corum tales with her).

That's right - he's mentioned in Stormbringer. I'd forgotten that Terhali's pa had been name-checked. I'll also have to dig-out my copy of Sword and the Stallion too, for Sactric. Got to do that for the Corum book shortly, anyway, so thanks for reminding me Ian!

 

[Vagabond]

The ancestor was Iuntric X, who was Terhali's father (an unnamed demon
was her mother, and apparently she had a brother named Sactric who
appears in one of the Corum tales with her).

That's right - he's mentioned in Stormbringer. I'd forgotten that Terhali's pa had been name-checked. I'll also have to dig-out my copy of Sword and the Stallion too, for Sactric. Got to do that for the Corum book shortly, anyway, so thanks for reminding me Ian!

That's what I'm here for

-V

 

[havercake lad]

There is nothing to say either way whether or not the Terhalil who is the sister to Sactric ( who calls himself the Emperor of the Malibann ) is also the same Terhali who is the daughter of Iuntric and who reigns as the 'Green Empress' from 8406 After Foundation to 9011AF.
Imperial names are often reused amongst Melniboneans, and the Terhali in the Corum story seems at best an equal to her brother. Possibly Terhali of the Malibann is from an alternative timeline to the one Elric comes from ?
Terhali, 'The Green Emperess' appears in the Elric/Conan Marvel comic strip written by Roy Thomas but supposedly 'plotted' by Micheal Moorcock and James Cawthorne.
The battle-barge Terhali's Particular Satisfaction is still servicable in Elric III's day, and might have been constructed in Terhali's, 'The Green Empress's, reign.
An Emperess is mentioned as ruling in Melnibone by O'indura, a dream travelling Imperial Princess encountered by Rakhir (the Roaming Forest ). There is no clue whether this is Terhali or if at least one more Melnibonean woman attained the Ruby Throne.
Intrestingly the Malibann Corum encounters have been 'banished by a trick' from their own realm. The Green Empress in the Marvel strip has also been magically banished, this time to Hyboria ( complete with her home city/palace of Yagala.)

 

[Loz]

The Green Empress in the Marvel strip has also been magically banished, this time to Hyboria ( complete with her home city/palace of Yagala.)

This I found fascinating and it forms the basis of what's believed by the Terhali ancestor cult I've built for CotYK. Whether its true or not is up to the cult to discover. Perhaps she has been sent, along with her brother, to the plane in the Corum story... perhaps not...