THE NECROPOLIS

Kezoor

Mongoose
Where can I find some information about the Necropolis that appeared on the first book of Lone Wolf? The book said that there was a very ancient evil that existed before the arrival of the darklords. Is described in later books? I only own the books from Flight from the Dark to The Jungle of Horrors.
 

Nyxator

Mongoose
No, Lone Wolf never visits the Graveyard of the Ancients in later books.
I think it was built by either the druids of Malis Mound or some Drodarin race enslaved by Agarash (or one of his lieutenants). Many people disagree, saying it's a Shianti graveyard.
 

kourck

Mongoose
There's something weird about the Shianti pre-Isle of Lorn. They seem to be sort of evil, or at least not as nice as they seem from the Grey Star books. Just look at the sort of stuff they left in Kalte and the Graveyard (if they were indeed the people who built it). By the way, Nyxator, those druids of Malis Mound - that sounds slightly familiar, but I don't really remember where from, what are they all about?
 

Kezoor

Mongoose
Mmmh...I don´t think that It was a Shianti graveyard. Shianti are good demigods that have a long lifespan and i can´t imagine this race building that place. Perhaps some evil Elder Mages that the history doesn´t talk about or those druids of Malis Mound. Only mr. Dever knows...
 

columbob

Mongoose
kourck said:
There's something weird about the Shianti pre-Isle of Lorn. They seem to be sort of evil, or at least not as nice as they seem from the Grey Star books. Just look at the sort of stuff they left in Kalte and the Graveyard (if they were indeed the people who built it).

Don't forget that they were at war against the ultimate evil (Naar and Agarash) in a harsh world. Of course they had to build strong and canny defences.
 

Nyxator

Mongoose
kourck said:
By the way, Nyxator, those druids of Malis Mound - that sounds slightly familiar, but I don't really remember where from, what are they all about?

They are descendants of the Cener Druids of Ruel. They are based somewhere under the Durncrag mountains. You meet their exiled leader in "The Prisoners of Time". That's probably where you read their name.

columbob said:
Don't forget that they were at war against the ultimate evil (Naar and Agarash) in a harsh world. Of course they had to build strong and canny defences.

Ahem... Agarash was defeated 2 thousand years before their arrival. :)

It comes to mind that the Graveyard may actually have been Shianti in origin, but it was corrupted by the Darklords when they ruled the land which later became Sommerlund.
 

columbob

Mongoose
Nyxator said:
Ahem... Agarash was defeated 2 thousand years before their arrival. :)
.
:oops:

Silly me. Who did they fight against then? I don't remember and don't have my copy of the Companion with me right now.
 

chrono_hal

Mongoose
I simply don't know if Shiantis can be seen as "good" or "evil". Well from *their* point of vue, they're obviously good. And all that you read at the beginning of the GS books is probably that : the point of vue of the Shiantis. They never intended to harm anyone on Magnamund and in spite of this, their actions have had bad consequences for the human race, which let Ishir to ask them to simply go back to Daziarn, as stated in the chronology of Aon in the RPG.
 

Holmes

Mongoose
columbob said:
Nyxator said:
Ahem... Agarash was defeated 2 thousand years before their arrival. :)
.
:oops:

Silly me. Who did they fight against then? I don't remember and don't have my copy of the Companion with me right now.

Ice Demons, I believe. The lil' buggers in the lamps in the Caverns of Kalte.
 

columbob

Mongoose
I think I confused the Shianti with the Elder Magi. Maybe this has to do with how the Elder Magi's magic in the RPG is very similar to Grey Star's... :roll:
 

Holmes

Mongoose
columbob said:
I think I confused the Shianti with the Elder Magi. Maybe this has to do with how the Elder Magi's magic in the RPG is very similar to Grey Star's... :roll:

Nah....I wouldn't worry about it. There's some sort of disconnect inherent in the books.

Graveyard of the Ancients
Tomb of the Majhan

Both nasty places.

In the Magnamund Companion, it explicitly says the Shianti are...and I'm paraphrasing here..."known in the lore of all peoples...as the Majhan, the Ancients, the...etc."

One of the Lesser Magicks of the Shianti is Necromancy. Grey Star makes a deal with the dead of a prison to release their spirits so they can have revenge on their Shadakine jailors. The warning given to Necromancers is not whether it is good or bad, but simply to be wary of using Necromancy as contacting the dead always has a price, not one the Necromancer may want to pay.

One minute they seem all nice and goody, tje next minute it seems like their works are Evil - or at the very least been turned to Evil.

It's a bit hard to pin the Shianti down. :?:
 

chrono_hal

Mongoose
Grey Star makes a deal with the dead of a prison to release their spirits so they can have revenge on their Shadakine jailors. The warning given to Necromancers is not whether it is good or bad, but simply to be wary of using Necromancy as contacting the dead always has a price, not one the Necromancer may want to pay.

It's even mor than that : Grey Star is asked to free the spirit of the dead by, IIRC, using a forbidden spell. I remember that, when I read this, I thought : "Hey, this is described as being nasty, evil, archi-verbotten but Grey Star knows it. And if he knows it, it's obviously because the shiantis have taught him it !"

Shiantis' intention are good in general, that's ok, but as for their means, it's really a question of point of vue.
 

Ordovician

Mongoose
Holmes said:
Tomb of the Majhan

Both nasty places.
Which brings me to address something that isn't really Holmes' notion, but came up before: where does everyone get all this information on the Majhan as sword-wielding battle-sorcerers from? AFAIK, the name 'Tomb of the Majhan' and the 'Majhan, Ancients' quote (from the Legends, so non-canon right there) use the name Majhan to refer to the Shianti. Nowhere else do they refer to Majhan. And the only reason, IIRC, the Tomb of the Majhan was at all a bad place was because Darklord Haakon and a bunch of Giaks were hanging out there.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Its in the gazateer, in the Vassagonian empire section, also in the second to last timeline section. The Majhan are the warrior-magii of the vassagonian empire.

Before you start saying anything is wrong, please remember August and mongoose have acess to devers notes, and thus know quite a bit we do not.

The reason the magii of dessi have similar magik to greystar is because the elder magii are descended from the shainti; according to the rpg book. Something in devers notes must have led august to state this. ANd plus, if the rpg authors have a better way or idea of doing something, even if it coincides against devers own work, that would be fine with me. Dever was just one man after all. He made his sahr of mistakes.

Lastly, all of the lw products (or at elast the rulebook from what I know) were read and approved (given a glowing thumbs up) by dever. So if its fine with him, I guess the authors are on the right track. :)
 

Holmes

Mongoose
Xex said:
Before you start saying anything is wrong, please remember August and mongoose have acess to devers notes, and thus know quite a bit we do not.
True...but we also know that creative liberties have been taken to adapt the game to an RPG. And some hard decisions were made concerning the canon of certain books.

<Sigh> While it would have been peachy if everything all lined up, this is not the case, and presumably would have caused other issues. I simply plan on dealing with this by making judgement calls as they come up in the game whether to go with the original interpretations of some things, or the updates in the RPG based on my player's and the campaign's needs.

Since I have two players who grew up with the gamebooks, and one new player who became interested in the game based on a review I posted online (even though it was really aimed at an audience of fans of the original gamebook series) , I will probably lean more towards the gamebooks' takes on things, since it will be less explanation later on (I'd rather not get into a 'Book x says this!' argument and bog down the game..)

In any case, it's just a game. And if you can't nitpick minor details of your hobby, you're losing half the fun of it all... :lol:
 

Ordovician

Mongoose
Sorry, I did reread and there was more information on the Majhan. My bad. :?

However, the information *as it is in the relevant parts of the RPG* don't seem to really suggest that the Majhan are, indeed, the Shianti. I'm wondering if maybe Dever's original version of them had them as independent sorcerers.

Also, I'd suggest that the Northern Shianti (Ancients/Majhan) possibly fell prey to the evil from the Darklands and Naar, accounting for their difference in temperament. Or that, possibly, the niceness of the ones in Grey Star is a result of being humbled by a goddess. Maybe at one time the Shianti *were* cosmic badasses.

Are the Suukon canon? The only place I recall hearing that name for them was in the Legends. And I can't remember what country had about them, either.
 

Paido

Mongoose
@ Ordovician:

Concerning the Majhan from the timeline in the rulebook, a theory took up residence in my head ... Maybe you already read it, but in case you did not, laziness demands that I just quote myself here: :D

  • [...] When browsing that chronology, I stumbled over the fact that the Majhan are supposed to have ruled Vassagonia about 1500 years after the Shianti retreated to the Isle of Lorn! And their warlike behaviour doesn't sound very "Shianti" at all ...

    The magic they use could easily
    be of Shianti origins (Elementalism), though. Maybe the Majhan were indeed Vassagonians who discovered some arcane secrets and lore of the Shianti (maybe in the Tomb of the Majhan?) and managed to learn some of their magic that way; they could have taken the name of these old demigods (or whatever the ancient Vassagonians thought the Shianti to be) for themselves afterwards. (Maybe saw themselves as the heirs to the Majhan?)

    That might even make them another take on the "human Shianti Wizards" that haunted the forum until August promised to create that class for the book on magic ... :D

    [...]

    Hmm, a few thoughts are starting to tear themselves loose here ... a modern Vassagonian who discovered the arcane secrets of
    these Majhan might make for a fascinating antagonist for adventures! Imagine a Barraka who has access to at least a few Lesser Magicks of the Shianti and uses that power for his own goals ... :twisted:

    -- From the Place your mark on Magnamund! thread
Just a theory, of course ...


Paido
 

Winter Wolf

Mongoose
Ordovician said:
Also, I'd suggest that the Northern Shianti (Ancients/Majhan) possibly fell prey to the evil from the Darklands and Naar, accounting for their difference in temperament. Or that, possibly, the niceness of the ones in Grey Star is a result of being humbled by a goddess. Maybe at one time the Shianti *were* cosmic badasses.

In the timeline I believe in the RPG book. It says that the Shianti where effected by some kind curse and they left the north this possibly explains the evil nature of the Graveyard of the Ancients.
 
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