My group have the opposite view of crits to a few here. We like the the effects crits can do. The reason we use our own chart which we are changing again since we are using to d12's now. If your ship gets her thrusters hit and can only turn one way or gets -1 to hit on your weapons. Things like that could happen and you have adjust your tactics to suit. We even like the old ship explodes crit. That means you have to protect your big ships with your little ships eg maximus escorting your octurion manuever to shield so the Oct won't get criticaled out the game. We have it that all crits are repairable, all hands to deck is awesome SA.
The effect of critical hits
- Thread starter Keith
- Start date
He he, I tried shielding my Octurion with a Maximus in a tournament game once and on the penultimate ship's fire it was destroyed because I forgot to roll for my interceptor! To rub salt into the wound, the remaining Centurion shot at the Octurion and with the one critical caused took out all of my weapons on the first shot that the Octurion had taken in the game.
GAME OVER
However, I think one of the biggest lessons to learn is not to take ships that are two priority levels above the size of the game - smaller ships taking "bad" criticals doesn't matter so much and averaging out the luck is a key function in picking an effective fleet.
GAME OVER
However, I think one of the biggest lessons to learn is not to take ships that are two priority levels above the size of the game - smaller ships taking "bad" criticals doesn't matter so much and averaging out the luck is a key function in picking an effective fleet.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
Triggy said:
That is my point precisely.
ACTA is a fleet game and a single unlucky critical will not take out a fleet.
Ripple said:
I agree that it is possible for crits to seriously affect the outcome of a battle. But if crits are ad frequent and as detrimental as the original poster believes, then if you continue fighting with your fleet, then you should get those criticals in return.
(my emphasis.)Ripple said:
I think it is part of the design. And it is unlikely. A good player should be able to adapt to the loss of a single ship. The best victories are achieved after defeat seemed imminent.
I hope I was not doing that. That was not my intent and I'm sorry if I sounded that way.
We had a game last night. Minbari vs. EA. I played the Minbari and wrecked his fleet with a Sharlin and Tinashi - those damn precise weapons made criticals every turn. Ted's Warlock took 3 crits before it could shoot, -2 speed, crew loss, and vital system loss of forward arc! That ship was out of the game immediately. The boneheads then went about criticalling every other ship in the fleet over three turns.
Now I know Minbari are tough and there was some lucky rolling, but a turn didn't go by that I didn't have multiple rolls on the critical table often with dire results. Maybe it was the critical table, maybe it was the hit table, maybe it was precise weapons, but there is something unbalanced going on.
Now I know Minbari are tough and there was some lucky rolling, but a turn didn't go by that I didn't have multiple rolls on the critical table often with dire results. Maybe it was the critical table, maybe it was the hit table, maybe it was precise weapons, but there is something unbalanced going on.
Greg Smith
Mongoose
animus said:
So the Heavy Particle Cannon was no use then? Or you couldn't turn it around to use the aft railgun? Or get in close to use the port and starboard weapons?
You still gained +1 initiative; had 4 interceptors; 4 starfuries; a super AP, triple damage beam weapon; a hull of 6; more damage points remaining than the tinashi; but it was out of the game?
"out of the game" is a bit of an exageration, but it's battleworthiness was shattered. It contributed, but I never got in range of his side guns and after the next turn, he was at -4 speed pointed in the wrong direction. It lasted the game, but the Oracle did more damage.
I'm a better gamer than Ted to be sure. He fell for my Nial bait and didn't move his fighters to help reduce the stealth, choosing to dogfight instead. He concentrated his fire on the Leshath bait instead of the other ships and couldn't beat its stealth. He slowed his Novas to empty the hangars instead of rushing into the enemy. However, the pasting he suffered was at the hands of 20 critical hits in the course of an hour's play.
I wish I knew where the problem lay. I like the crit table. I like the game. I like how fast and decisive it is, but I worry about it's "wargaming" element. As a fan vehicle, it's second to none, but I roll dice and my friends roll dice and we want a wargame.
Maybe it could be fixed on the other end with more lenient damage control chances.
Hell, maybe it's a targeting issue - maybe a rule that says ANY ship more than 15" away gets Stealth 3+ or +1 to its stealth trait. That may have changed our game.
Maybe its some limit on precise weapons.
I dunno. We've played three games with these same fleets (9 point Tourney Raid list) and each time it's been a blow out. Last night I figured out what was doing it: precise, Super AP beams and the Critical Hit Table. Minbari might be broken, stealth might be broken, crits might be broken, but something seems to be broken. We need a game Mechanic!
I'm a better gamer than Ted to be sure. He fell for my Nial bait and didn't move his fighters to help reduce the stealth, choosing to dogfight instead. He concentrated his fire on the Leshath bait instead of the other ships and couldn't beat its stealth. He slowed his Novas to empty the hangars instead of rushing into the enemy. However, the pasting he suffered was at the hands of 20 critical hits in the course of an hour's play.
I wish I knew where the problem lay. I like the crit table. I like the game. I like how fast and decisive it is, but I worry about it's "wargaming" element. As a fan vehicle, it's second to none, but I roll dice and my friends roll dice and we want a wargame.
Maybe it could be fixed on the other end with more lenient damage control chances.
Hell, maybe it's a targeting issue - maybe a rule that says ANY ship more than 15" away gets Stealth 3+ or +1 to its stealth trait. That may have changed our game.
Maybe its some limit on precise weapons.
I dunno. We've played three games with these same fleets (9 point Tourney Raid list) and each time it's been a blow out. Last night I figured out what was doing it: precise, Super AP beams and the Critical Hit Table. Minbari might be broken, stealth might be broken, crits might be broken, but something seems to be broken. We need a game Mechanic!
Geekybiker
Mongoose
animus said:
Well, we know Minbari are broken. That's mainly due to the broken stealth mechanic. However that's due for change so no worries just yet. Crtis- Its precisely broken. I mean it affects all fleets more or less equally.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
In the case of the Warlock losing Forward arc guns dont forget that Boresight and Turret are SEPERATE fire arcs.
Also yes that was unlucky to get critted like that but it goes both ways, you could get lucky and take the forward guns of a Sharlin and that would be more or less out of the game. Crits can be nasyt but they affect everyone equally. (Ok some races have more precise weapons than others but this doesn make AS big a difference as you might think)
Also yes that was unlucky to get critted like that but it goes both ways, you could get lucky and take the forward guns of a Sharlin and that would be more or less out of the game. Crits can be nasyt but they affect everyone equally. (Ok some races have more precise weapons than others but this doesn make AS big a difference as you might think)
Another thing I noticed (as this was the second time I critted the Warlock so bad in the first turn that it was effectively neutered), is that whoever got the first shot off won.
In the last game I had initiative and took out the Warlock with the Sharlin straight away. In another game where he had first initiative, he couldn't beat the stealth and so the Sharlin again got the first hit kicking in the Warlock's teeth. I'm sure if he'd been able to see through my stealth in the game where he had first initiative, the Sharlin would have been toast. Still, should the game be "whoever shoots first wins"?
In the last game I had initiative and took out the Warlock with the Sharlin straight away. In another game where he had first initiative, he couldn't beat the stealth and so the Sharlin again got the first hit kicking in the Warlock's teeth. I'm sure if he'd been able to see through my stealth in the game where he had first initiative, the Sharlin would have been toast. Still, should the game be "whoever shoots first wins"?
Wulf Corbett
Mongoose
It's a basic rule of warfare...animus said:
Wulf
The odds of you getting such a result (or worse) in a single volley of Sharlin fire is probably one in four and even then it's not the end of the world for the Warlock. As pointed out in another thread, Raid level games really aren't designed for War level ships - the stats are there and they can be played but luck WILL play a larger part in the game.
Repairing criticals more easily would be fun but I really don't believe this is necessary - I like the balance of the game (in terms of crits) as it is.
On the other issue of Minbari stealth - with high thresholds and lower crew/damage points Minbari are now almost perfectly balanced with every other fleet. Of course shooting at them is a little more hit and miss than usual (pun intended) but this doesn't change the basic fact that good tactics will win the day more often than not!
Repairing criticals more easily would be fun but I really don't believe this is necessary - I like the balance of the game (in terms of crits) as it is.
On the other issue of Minbari stealth - with high thresholds and lower crew/damage points Minbari are now almost perfectly balanced with every other fleet. Of course shooting at them is a little more hit and miss than usual (pun intended) but this doesn't change the basic fact that good tactics will win the day more often than not!
Geekybiker
Mongoose
Burger said:
Ahh yes. The tourney ships are better. Still stealth is inherrently broken right now IMHO.
Maybe the Warlock needed either Nova or Chronos escorts to help shield her from harm if it's what the fleet was built round. Sounds more like that you were just unlucky or opppnent was lucky. Had a game Cent vs narn the other day with tourney fleets, had reduced the G'Quan to 26 hits before i got a crit, it just seems to happen that way. In our Mimbari games it's usually the Sharlin that takes the weapons out crit. We changed our crit tables so they could be all repaired and made All hands to deck SA effects crits done that round since it is quite hard to get it not that it helps me as still fail all the repair rolls.
Agree with the Stealth problem, it's too all or nothing but the tourney list is far better.
Always found it funny how stealth might dissapear when crippled and interceptors go automatically. One is highly advanced piece of tech and the other is seperate autonomous point defense systems.
Agree with the Stealth problem, it's too all or nothing but the tourney list is far better.
Always found it funny how stealth might dissapear when crippled and interceptors go automatically. One is highly advanced piece of tech and the other is seperate autonomous point defense systems.
IronChefZod
Mongoose
I think the crits are just a little bit too much. The Crit tables always keep me from taking ships above priority level and make me cringe whenever I take ships at priority level. Two ships below priority are much less vulnerable to crits than one ship at priority and you don't loose much firepower.
Personally I think you should be able to attempt to repair crits even on the turn they are suffered. This makes crits slightly less powerful as it's possible to repair them sooner and also saves the player the headache of marking/remembering which crits were inflicted this turn and which crits were inflicted on previous turns.
Personally I think you should be able to attempt to repair crits even on the turn they are suffered. This makes crits slightly less powerful as it's possible to repair them sooner and also saves the player the headache of marking/remembering which crits were inflicted this turn and which crits were inflicted on previous turns.
just played my second game last night so not too much ACTA experience then! (but alot with other games and games mechanics) I have not presumed to vote in the poll untill I have had a few more games.
However to reduce the effectiveness of criticals you could say if a weapon is firing at more than half its range there is a minus 1 on the severity table (with a 1 being no crit after all)
and the close blastdoor orders could also apply a minus one on the crit table (as well as the 5+ save vs damage)
if these were cumulative you could protect your bigger ships as they got into range and not have long range chancey criticals?
However to reduce the effectiveness of criticals you could say if a weapon is firing at more than half its range there is a minus 1 on the severity table (with a 1 being no crit after all)
and the close blastdoor orders could also apply a minus one on the crit table (as well as the 5+ save vs damage)
if these were cumulative you could protect your bigger ships as they got into range and not have long range chancey criticals?
