The ancients in your campaigns.

Old timer

Banded Mongoose
Hello again, second post this evening, getting the hang of this new technology :) Just wanted to know how other GMs out there use the ancients in their games. I really like this part of traveller, and many of my player groups have had very interesting times when poking around ancient sites. My take on the ancients is similar to the way portraid in project steel, though some times the sites end up DOOM like( the games not the film). How does everyone else use the ancients, if at all?
 
Old timer said:
Hello again, second post this evening, getting the hang of this new technology :) Just wanted to know how other GMs out there use the ancients in their games. I really like this part of traveller, and many of my player groups have had very interesting times when poking around ancient sites. My take on the ancients is similar to the way portraid in project steel, though some times the sites end up DOOM like( the games not the film). How does everyone else use the ancients, if at all?

Sparingly. And I told my old time players that there was no guarantee that the canonical secret of the ancients had anything to do with the campaign they were in.
In four years of playing, They've had two contacts with ancient tech -and they're only aware of one of them :twisted:

Plus, as noted in an older thread, I'm of the opinion that the story spun in "secrets of the ancients" is very likely a lie, or a VERY tall story. ;)
 
Yes there are ancients in Traveller. But if you are relying on what Grandfather said, it's all a lie.






Edit
Hey what happened to the rest of my post. That darn Grandfather at it again, hiding the truth.
End Edit

Dave Chase
 
I prefer to keep Grandfather (or any other living Ancient), working disintegrators and pocket universes out of my games. That said, Ancient sites hold a lot of secrets but few (if any) of them work right away; usually reverse-engineering is required (this is how the Imperium got its Black Globes).

Of course, in Egryn, archaeologists also go after 2nd Imperium relics, which may be as interesting as the Ancient ones.

All in all, Ancients are a great source of McGuffins... :twisted:
 
In my campaign I have large "Steller Gates" hanging in space that were built by the Ancients and these still work. Now their very few of these and the players might discover them, then figure out how to trigger them to work them. Actually there are (4) in the Verge sector and they aid one to go from point A to point B, and usually at a distance of up to (24) hexes apart. The players have only in 20+ yrs actually found (2) of these Gates, and have used them. They have also kept them a secrect as well.

Penn
 
Also many years ago, I was a member of the HIWG and was the Verge sector analyst. Why back then I was working on a project to have GDW publish my reference/resource book call..."Ancients of the Verge Sector". I mapped out all the Ancient sites in the Verge sector, and defined what each site was, what it's history was, what happened, and what could be found there as of today. The book wold have been close to 128 pages with my own artwork as well.

Now for me the Ancients were a race like the Dryone but slightly different than them. They did not 'Cast" though. They took the "Chirpers" a lessor developed version of them selves, and genetically raised them up to create a "servant race, that we call the Dryone". They set up the "Cast" system for their servant race, and then used these servents everywhere. One of the Red Zones in the Verge sector actually has a planet with Ancients on it that have slid back into barbian state and forgotten their great technology and history and are still fighting the war. Two sides using swords , armor, and Psion.

So for my campaign I have rich history, data, and details about the Ancients, BUT the player have to dig to find it and etc. Even after 20+ years they have only just scratched the surface in this regards.

Penn
 
Old timer said:
Just wanted to know how other GMs out there use the Ancients in their games.
Speaking for myself, hardly at all. I certainly never had working Ancients technology lying around. No matter how advanced, I always found it hard to credit that some zapotron-ray gun dug out of the ground after thousands of years will have any chance of still functioning. In fact, I often think that things break down faster the more advanced they are! :wink:

I've only ever had Ancient ruins, at most. Even those tend to be pretty delapidated. On the other hand, I like to have other races which rose and fell between the Ancients and modern Traveller times. Those can be much more useful sources of information for researchers.
 
Bygoneyrs said:
The book wold have been close to 128 pages with my own artwork as well.

Have you thought of self-publishing this book, perhaps under the Mongoose developer license ? Or, failing that, just making it available for free ? No need for expensive printing - just provide a PDF, or use a print on demand service

Bygoneyrs said:
They did not 'Cast" though. They took the "Chirpers" a lessor developed version of them selves, and genetically raised them up to create a "servant race, that we call the Dryone".

This is very similar to my interpretation. The true Ancients are more alien and ancient than can be comprehended. The Droyne were just a slave race that the ancients uplifted and used to perform their mundane tasks, just like the Vargr and various human sub-species. The difference with the Droyne is that a genetically identical race was left distributed across known space. Casting was just a method of genetic manipulation the Ancients developed, in order to maximise the usefulness of the Droyne. The 'Ancients' sites so far discovered are actually Droyne bases, not true Ancient ancient's sites, although somewhere out there are ring worlds and star gates, etc.

My Ancients are far more like Iain M. Banks' Dra'azon or the Astair Reynold's Pattern Shifters, or the Forerunner's of the Halo games. Alien, unknowable, omniscient, and - fortunately - busy with other things.
 
Currently I just don't have the time to rework a couple of chapters that I want to change first. Plus I am currently reworking my campaign for my group, and that comes first. Ah the work of a GM is never done.

Penn
 
I for one like and hate the Ancients as presented in CT. If secret of the Ancients didn't exist I think it would be a much better universe.

Reason, all of my players have read the adventure and many of them assume it is common knowledge.

In my recent games i have been using the TNE/1248 settings as core material, in that that which was has been swept aside and only fragments remain.

With that For my next game I am abandoning all pretext of the OTU other than the 3000 years of human space exploration. It is based a lot on Brian Daley's "Jinx on a Terran Inheritance" series.
 
First thing I do is discard the Ancients as they stand. They're not Droyne, there's no Grandfather (who I think is Marc Miller's "Mary Sue" character), there's no Secret of the Ancients. Droyne are a historical curiosity is all - they discovered jump drive, wandered around for a bit, then got bored and lost it. Something else spread humans around and made the Vargr, something for which little evidence remains (of which we should probably be glad).

IMO Ancients (as an SF cliche) should be mysterious, inscrutable, unfathomable, and terrifying. The more aloof First Races from Babylon 5 are a good example of what I mean.
 
There is something... uncomfortable... about Grandfather, pocket-universes and working 300,000-years-old Ubertech running loose in my game.

For this reason when I run OTU games, I like to keep the Ancients more or less in the background and focus on more recent and interesting histories such as the secret technical advances of the Second Imperium (usually TL11-13, but in directions where the 3rd Imperium would rarely tread).
 
Ancient tech needs not be all that deadly. It merely has to have a hint of mystery. Just watched the second episode of Farscape, there was a catapillar that cleans teeth. Here is a perfect example of Ancient GenTech without players even really guessing it.

Similarly, most artifacts are broken, so even if you could guess at their purpose...they would not work anyway. As the CSC says (paraphrase): it is a chance for the referee to endulge in handwavium.
 
I tend to treat the Ancients as a sort of 'tinfoil hat' pseudoexplanation for all the things that We Simply Don't Know. I dislike that they (or their artifacts) are too often used as dei ex machinae, and they are simply too improbable to avoid bending suspension-of-disbeliefpast acceptable levels. For me. YMMV.
 
My campaign has actually started to center on the Ancients. My Scout players have recruited a knowledgeable Droyne Sport as a shipmate to help them search for Ancient ruins. They know that the droyne were associated with the Ancients, but I've kept the exact relationship vague. And yes, I plan on ignoring much of the Grandfather plotline. I've envisioned more than one Ancient race and the rim sector they're exploring was once the site of a war between several of these elder civilizations, now known as the Blight.

The quest has been a great excuse to get them to go beyond the borders of Imperial space and really Explore (yes, with a capital E). They'll get the chance to investigate some Ancient mysteries, but the current politics of the area will hopefully ensnare them along the way. It's hard to get to planet D when there are pirates and despots ruling planets A thru C.
 
I personally use the Ancients like I do the First Ones in Babylon 5 - as something that is mostly legend and not ever going to be a direct part of my game except as legends and sources of mystery.

I dislike the idea of Grandfather, even if I do not mind some of the tech he brought to the universe (even though my players will NEVER find any!).

-Bry
 
One of the Ancient devices I have in mine is a huge Steller Portal, since my item predates the StarGate series by a few years...I pat myself on the back. Now my "Steller Portals" sit in deep space just on the outside of the systems where they are located. They are huge, and each gate is connected to just one other gate that is located (24) hexes away on the outskirts of another system. Now in the Verge sector there are (4) of them and the players have discovered and used only two of them.

These huge "Steller Portals" are like stepping though a door way, from one part of space to another. One can even see the different star patern on the otherside through the slightly energized wave curtain within the portal. Also once triggered, the portal stays open for (20) minutes. Now other than the signal needed to activate the portal the PCs have no clue about the Steller Portal. The metal it is made from is Unknown, it's power sources is unknown, and etc etc etc. Also it does not show up on any scans and only seems to be located by visible means. The players only found it purely by accident while hunting down Pirates.

Does the existance of the "Steller Portal" hurt the game, not at all. It becomes just a useful mystery in the game is all.

Penn
 
kafka said:
Ancient tech needs not be all that deadly. It merely has to have a hint of mystery. Just watched the second episode of Farscape, there was a catapillar that cleans teeth.
"Minty!" :D

Just don't try frying one ...
eew.gif
 
Vile said:
kafka said:
Ancient tech needs not be all that deadly. It merely has to have a hint of mystery. Just watched the second episode of Farscape, there was a catapillar that cleans teeth.
"Minty!" :D

Just don't try frying one ...
eew.gif

It's called a dentic in case anyone was wondering.

LBH
 
Well, the way I've been handling it (lately) is by including Grandfather and his descendants... who were considerably more numerous than in the "official" line. At least two additional generations, meaning there were at least 160,000 "Ancients"... who are actually one of the "interim" civilizations. (There have been at least four large-scale galactic civilizations occupying the volume the Third Imperium and surrounding polities currently hold, of which Grandfather and his followers - and their uplifted servitor races and synthetics - are merely one. All of these are far enough separated in time that there is essentially no meaningful communication, even one-way communication, between them, by which I mean that, by the time a civilization or group of civilizations begins analyzing the remains of a Precursor Civilization to the point where more than a cursory history is laid out or a very poorly understood prototype copy of "super-tech" is being put into production, the newcomers are already starting to verge on the same order of development as those they study.)

The true Ancients in this portion of the Milky Way actually date back considerably farther than any of the theorized Precursor Civilizations - Grandfather and his relatives reigned, IMTU as in the OTU, on the close order of three hundred thousand years ago. There have been at least two, possibly three intervening Precursor Civilization, and there is probably at least one which preceded Grandfather by about another two hundred thousand years. Prior to that, however, it was a long step back to the Ultimate Precursors... something on the order of fifty million years. And the Ultimates were not alone... during their explorations of the galaxy, they discovered a contemporary race, one which may have been of equal power, or may have been even more powerful. These nemeses were located somewhat Spinward of the current campaign area and considerably Coreward, and were distant enough that none of the 3I's contemporary empires have reached their territory - both volumes were demarcated by heightened concentrations of lanthanum, allowing Jump to be locally developed, and much of the space between was nearly devoid of usable amounts of the stuff. In any case, the Ultimate Precursors and their contemporary rivals went to war against each other, a war of intended total genocide.

The Ultimates lost.

For the next several million years (how many million is uncertain), the Rivals swept through their enemies' former territory in war fleets the size of which has never been seen since, but on irregular patterns, since the volumes were orbiting the rest of the galaxy at different rates. They searched out their enemies, destroying them as remnants were found. They destroyed any new civilizations which began to emerge, as soon as those civilizations became advanced enough to make themselves detectable.

And then the raids stopped.

Where did these Great Enemies go - if, indeed, they went anywhere? Do they still survive, somewhere, or did they leave heirs? Do any artifacts - from either side - still exist? And what might be possible?

If the characters decide they're interested in pursuing "Ancient" lore, they may discover part of this backstory... and they may - just may - encounter some form of remnant element of one of the Precursors. Yes, there is at least one survivor from Grandfather's empire, possibly more than one, sequestered and watching... because he is at least somewhat aware of the galactic history which includes the Ultimates and their enemies, and he knows that nothing from this region of the galaxy ever defeated those enemies. And that he knows of no reason that the raids might not resume if civilization is once more founded in this region...
 
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