Telepathy DC to low?

[Anonymous]

Isn't the saving throw against telepathy to low?
if you play an average telepath , lets say an P5, CHA 15(+2) and level 5 the save is against a DC 12, assuming a targel same level WILL save +4 WIS 12(+1) the Roll is a success at a 7+, way to low!

Even, if the telepath is a P10 the save is successfull at 12+

Shouldn't the DC be: (P-level)+(CHA-modifier)+(level)+(telepathy-throw)-(telepathy-DC)

This would result in a more realistic DC!

Best regards Josh

 

[Tegman]

I agree, I have read the books and in them a telepath, most often, cuts through the mental defenses of a victim with ease.

I'm thinking of not giving a victim any level bonuses to their will-save vs telepathy, and only their basic, ie attribute modification. So a lvl 15 scientist with Wisdom 15 would only have a +2 to his/her save vs telepathy. But it's only a though that I've had, haven't tried it out.

Another idea that I have been thinking about is that the victim doesn't roll a save, but instead the telepaths DC goes up with a characters Wisdom modifier (or down). This removes a high roll save from the victim.

But I must try them out first before I'll decide.

These rules includes only non-telepaths, since telepaths would make a save as usually.

Anyway, this is what I'm thinking of right now, feel free to comment on them, or mind-blast me about them

 

[frobisher]

I agree, I have read the books and in them a telepath, most often, cuts through the mental defenses of a victim with ease.

However, consider the P level of those telepaths in general. They ain't P5's... Another 5 P levels takes those saves below 50% which is good enough to represent what happens.

 

[omegar]

the problem i have is that the diference between a p5 and a p6 is not linear.... i am pretty sure it is supposed to be exponential(Gah spelling) and the best way to model that would be to use the following
(P-level*2)+(CHA-modifier)+(level)

this would mean that a p6 level one. with no charisma would have a dc of 13 where as a p5 would be 11....a p10 would be 21.....it means that a more powerful Psi would easily defeat a mind......but thats just me.

 

[lastbesthope]

Omegar,

Well you spelt exponential correctly. but the series you describe for DC saves is still linear. I'm guessing it's a steeper line than the existing ruleset (which I'm not too familiar with). If you want it to be exponential then you'll need to use a formula with powers involved. but I'm guessing you just actually want a teeper linear progression, at least for the lower P levels.

LBH

 

[Barbara]

What our group worked out is that your save DC's are crap until about level 10 and then only if you are P8 or higher. Your DC goes up usually twice as fast as peoples Will save. Of course, once you get to that level, you get the problem in the other forum (DC's too high) with a L10(?) P11 that nobody seems to be able to save against on Pain(but isn't that what sniper rifles are for and tranq guns)

What I don't like about the saves is that non telepaths don't know they are getting anything done to them but they still get a resistance roll. The description states in the main book that it's very difficult to resist but unless you are high powered and high level, it's not. The only thing I think of is that most people are meant to be Zero level.

If they don't know then they should only get they're base Will save(they're innate resistance). If they actively resist then they can get the dice roll as well(active resistance).

My character has got a score of 1 success on surface scan out of 4 tries. That's a P12/L4 with the subject deliberately not resisting on 2 of them.(OK on the other one the subject was thinking of murder. Me being the victim) What can I say .. crappy dice rolls.

 

[Aramanthus]

Interesting. I've been wondering about that sort of potential problem. I'm interested in seeing what other groups are doing about it.

 

[frobisher]

Interesting. I've been wondering about that sort of potential problem. I'm interested in seeing what other groups are doing about it.

I've not run any d20 B5 yet, but my solution is going to be to remove the entire business of levels from the equation

I'm not 100% happy with d20 (understatement), mainly down to the level based escalation of combat skills, saving throw bonuses etc. Oh, and hit points

But once you remove the entire (hateful ) concept of levels intrinsically giving you bonuses, the weighting of your P rating and telepathy skill become much more important...

 

[Aramanthus]

Indepth how are you going to do that? PM if you want too. I'm interested in seeing how you are going to accomplish it.

 

[omegar]

Omegar,

Well you spelt exponential correctly.

yeah, the gah was for the fact that it took 4 attempts to get it right

but the series you describe for DC saves is still linear. I'm guessing it's a steeper line than the existing ruleset (which I'm not too familiar with). If you want it to be exponential then you'll need to use a formula with powers involved. but I'm guessing you just actually want a teeper linear progression, at least for the lower P levels.

well yes i know it is still linear, but i have a preference against actual powers in formulas for games...... i should have explained that. I really shouldn't post at all

however using

(P-level^2)+(CHA-modifier)+(level)
would be scary as a p6 would have a 36 to save before we added his level or his charisma modifer!

thats why i suggested doubling the Psi-level. Of course you could have varible save levels. Things like a surface scan would have a high/hard save, where something like pain would have a lower/easier save

 

[lastbesthope]

Hey Omegar,

Sorry, didn't mean to sound snooty. You could always add a coefficient to the power, but that's getting harder again. Why not just make a look up tabe and use that for your games. Just make the save what you think it should be, based on P-Level, no need to be linear or anything!

It's good to be the GM!

LBH

 

[Barbara]

Just remember everyone, to read the other forum on Telepathic DCs, where the GM has the opposite problem.

omegar wrote:
P-level^2)+(CHA-modifier)+(level)
would be scary as a p6 would have a 36 to save before we added his level or his charisma modifer!

thats why i suggested doubling the Psi-level. Of course you could have varible save levels. Things like a surface scan would have a high/hard save, where something like pain would have a lower/easier save

Do you want to double it, ie times by 2, or square it,ie times it by itself. Doubling OK but squaring gets a bit ridiculous at anything over P4. Yes, they are meant to be difficult to resist but not impossible.

Well that's my idiot point for the day. Found the previous message by you with doubling, that formula seems to work and certainly looks more "realistic" than the current method.

(And for the obligatory question about idiot points. I used to hand them out to players who did something stupid, despite knowing that it was stupid. I made them roll a gross stupidity test. They had to roll 5 over their intelligence on a D20 to not realize that what they were doing was incredibly stupid. If they managed it and survived, they got an idiot point.When they got 10 pts, their AC dropped and everything the group ran into attacked them in preference to other people. As you can guess, people started thinking before acting. I will put up with ignorance and lack of inteligence but NOT blatant stupidity) Well that's my rant for for the week, I'll have my medication now.

 

[josh]

I'm thinking about only adding the WILL-Base to the telepathy-check, sounds best to me, so the "victim" has his "person" included and a low level teep can affect somebody...

Any suggestions about that?

 

[Aramanthus]

Makes some sense.

 

[lastbesthope]

Ditto.

LBH

 

[omegar]

you know what if we kept the same system, but when people made a will save, they can't actually use any bonus ubless they have being trained (I.e some feat) to block mental attacks. Most "pskers" would have this feat (Psi core getting it for free)

This would make the save harder for most people, while allowing training to come into it.

Oh and i was suggesting doubling, the second formula was pointing out why Squaring was bad.

 

[Aramanthus]

I'm not sure about that. I think they should still get the base DC save and their will bonus. Otherwise no one could resist a psi. And we know that did happen on the show.

 

[omegar]

actually most of the people who resist, do so because they are trained to do so, hence the following Feat:

Psi Block Training:
You can add your Will bonus to your attempt to resist a psi attack.

Normal: You can't add your will save when under psi attack, you can only use a D20 and your Intelligence Modifier.

Emmm ok what do you think?

It means that unless you get this training it is very easy for someone to scan you, but once you have had that training it can be harder to scan someone.

 

[Aramanthus]

Interesting, I'll have to think on it some more.

 

[josh]

How about letting someone only make a save, if he is aware of being scanned?