Target their engines?

[apoc527]

I feel like I should know this, but it's late. Are there any MGT rules for targeting specific parts of ships? I was just reading Spinward Encounters and there are some instructions to have the evil pirates target the players' ship's engines. Is that possible in game?

If not, brief house rule born of It's Too Late and I Need to Sleep:

*Target Their <Blank!>*
Must have Full Detail sensor resolution with Radar or Lidar or some other appropriate sensor system (perhaps Visual or EM would work too).

Must succeed on Sensor Lock special action.

Must make a Difficult (engines, barbettes/bays) or Very Difficult (turrets, sensors) Gunnery check. If successful, you roll for hit location for any damage normally with the ability shift your roll by 4 points towards your targeted section. Alternately, you simply hit your desired target.

Thoughts?

 

[BP]

Not really covered, but top of my list of roleplaying vs. wargaming rule requirements! :roll:

Minimal rule changing hack - add an extra task check (Gunner check) before Damage Table results or Location Table. Effect can then be used, like the following:

FAILURES
Exceptional....per Average, but -2 DM to next attack (deflects/obscures target)
Average........normal damage, re-roll any hits to targeted location
Marginal.......normal damage and location (may hit targeted)

SUCCESSES
Marginal.......normal damage and location (may hit targeted)
Average........single hit to targeted location (rest normal or split smallest to use single)
Exceptional....all damage to targeted location

EDIT: Oops, sorry, forgot this part.

This might be a difficult check, but, to me, this is what Gunners are trained to do - this is the average thing. Difficulty is in the range and maneuvering of the target, which already has DMs and what Gunner skill compensates for.

Must be in Full or Limited (-2 DM) sensor range. Does not require sensor check*, though normal Sensor Lock +1 DM can apply.

* Largest range is usually visual sensors, and Gunner skill has to be assumed to overlap Sensor for Gunner to be effective normally (this is one of those areas where 'skill creep' that is not directly addressed in the rules comes into play, IMO).

 

[phavoc]

I'd say that in order to target a specific portion of another ship you'd have to be

a) at very close range, because even with light-speed weapons, a ship doing maneuvers may make it impossible for you to time your shot...therefore its going to me more like a target of opportunity, and at long range by the time you sensor data got to you, and you fired, the target may no longer be there.

b) the ship being targeted would need to actually be showing that target to the enemy. So if you were chasing someone, then yes, you should be able to target engines. But say if you were being chased by a pirate, then no, you could not target their engines. Just like if you are on a vector that presents your bow to your enemy, your engines would not be targetable by the enemy because they don't have a shot at them.

c) and... to make things more complicated.... anything being targeted depends on the layout of your ship. If your engines are in your primary hull section, they would not be targetable in some instances. But, if you were a distributed ship, or say you had engine pods, then potentially, yes, you should be able to target them from any angle.

 

[BP]

Sure. But this is an RPG game we are talking about. :wink:

MgT Ship combat rounds cover minutes and Traveller ships are near velocity (and generally far from light speeds) and with limited (though impressive) thrusts - besides, anticipation is part of the skill of a Gunner and Pilot.

RAW doesn't account for directional facings, internal layouts, etc. when it comes to the Location table - it abstracts them away. What you are suggesting invalidates that and is at a whole different level of abstraction that makes assumptions (like engine facing) that also can fail.

MgT Space Combat, like most other aspects, is in no way realistic. Its also not a simulation. By design, it should support character actions and plot details.

 

[Jak Nazryth]

The rules do cover targeting. For every -1 you take on your attack roll, when you hit, you can adjust the hit location chart up or down from your roll.
For instance, if you take a -2 penalty to your shot, and you roll location 8, you can adjust it up to 10 or down to 6. Not sure what page it's on, but it is in there.

 

[BP]

Sounds familiar jak (maybe early playtests or another forum post), but don't find that in my copy of Core for Space Combat... can you find a page?

Removes the extra roll and is a simpler mechanic. But 'I aim for the sensors' makes for better roleplay, IMO, than 'I take a -2 DM so I can choose where I hit, somewhat...'

(Note: when aiming, I assume that one still has to get past the Hull to do Internal Damage for regular craft - if the hull is still non-zero, then any Internal target success would automatically go to Hull first.)

 

[apoc527]

I was kind of assuming you can only aim for stuff that appears on the External hit location table, but I suppose with EM sensors you could also pinpoint the power plant. Beyond that, it might get hard unless you have a blueprint of the ship.

 

[MongooseMatt]

There will be rules for doing just this in the forthcoming Pirates of Drinax campaign!

 

[Solomani666]

As a GM I would simply increase the difficulty of the task by one or two depending on range and sensors then assume a hit on the desired location.

.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

You might be able to take some info from the Capital Ship combat rules. When building your damage tables, there are systems classified as "A", "B" and "C" (HG page 68).

I would say that if you are aiming at a target that is a Type-A system, it is -2 to hit, a Type-B system is -3 to hit and a Type-C system is -4 to hit.

BUT, I do like the -2 to hit, but +/-2 on the Damage Location table. I might make it only a +/-1, but the idea seems sound as a QAD solution.

 

[Reynard]

If you're looking for some sort of 'realism' then remember even our 21st century weapons are more about hitting a target than hitting a specific part of a target so random location rules make more sense. If you're going more space opera then All Things are Possible. First I'd say only beam weapons are accurate enough to target a system. Announce targeting a system and take a -1 penalty to represent it's harder than targeting an entire ship.. If your final attack roll is 5 better than the target number you get to move the result of the hit location one level either way. This prevents easy hits and makes skilled gunners an asset.

 

[Reynard]

"Sounds familiar jak (maybe early playtests or another forum post), but don't find that in my copy of Core for Space Combat... can you find a page?"

Darn it, I somehow missed Jak's comment as I read the thread before I commented with my own solution.
Yes, where is that rule? I can't seem to find it in either High Guard or Core book.

 

[BP]

Hitting a target is first priority when that is all that needs to be done to neutralize the target

There are modern air-to-air missiles capable of targeting specific aircraft regions (ex: cockpit ala Python-5) and plenty of systems exist for shooting missiles out of the sky. Optical targeting of the cab of a moving vehicle is done for LOS bombs and missiles. And these systems represent development over just a few decades.

Sure, Traveller ships may be moving very fast, but in order to fight, not relative to each other. They are often at larger than normal terrestrial ranges, which actually helps when it comes to aspect changes, and their Gs are within today's operating ranges (albiet extremely limited time). Inertia is still there - i.e. ships can't instantly stop and change velocity.

Another aspect - with combat rounds of 6 minutes, sensibly firing an energy weapon represents more than one 'shot' (i.e. even if one accounts for 'recharge' time, no regime would stop at 6 minutes - they would research and brute force till they could do better). Since the RAW supports taking out missiles in flight with energy weps, its not any stretch to have then used to selectively target.

In a typical Traveller universe, there would be value in selectively taking out sensors, turrets, and M-Drives, so such would have been developed naturally.

Not that Traveller is 'realistic', but in terms of suspension of disbelief, selective targeting is well within what is already present in the RAW. In game play terms, it shouldn't be too easy, though. Otherwise it becomes the standard ho-hum tactic, but making it a viable option provides roleplay fodder.