Tactica Interstellar Alliance

[Triggy]

OK folks, as a positive, interesting debate I thought I'd start a series (eventually) of threads regarding fleet tactics, list selection and tales of battles gone so each of us can sound out our favourite ideas of how best to use a race in battle.

Anything goes so long as it's a positive (i.e. no comments on "balancing ships", etc. just ideas and experiences) and even tactics to counter the said race will be welcomed.

First up are the ISA as they are a popular race yet are pretty hard to use effectively and could be an interesting topic of conversation.

My initial thoughts on them are very much that they are a relatively fragile fleet to use and need to make use of every last ounce of their speed and manoevrability to overcome a canny foe. Skirting at the edge of enemy firing range, seldom allowing them to fire back in a big CAFed salvo and retreating to repair damage and criticals can be a good tactic for them. As the games get smaller this becomes even more the case although with larger games the enemy tend to be able to get to grips with you a little more due to sheer weight of numbers. I'll keep things brief for now and look forward to your ideas

 

[Commador Q]

concintrated fire is the death of white stars. even the SFOS version can't handle being under the guns of multiple enemy ships for long. so whenever posible minimise the numer of ships that can fire on your white stars (remeber adaptive armor only haves damage by weapon system so 5 ships each scoring one hit is worse than 1 ship scoring 8 hits), and whenever posible have multiple WS in the same ark (if you're lucky your oponent might even split fire between the 2 of them).

Additionally use the fame of the WS as a powerfull ship to draw attention from your smaller craft. if you want to use your nails against a ship concider putting a WS in the same ark as the nails in range of the target's AF weaponry (especially efective if the enemy's AF guns are week as thye need 6s to hit a WS). that way the'll have to decide whether to risk the stealth roles on the nails, or fire on the WS (with a higher hull and the ability to repair), and they are more likely to spread out their AD thus reducing the chance of anything dying. (this tactic may be a bit to risky for some but it's worked reasonably well against my oponents, who admitedly are easily psyked out).

as for killing white stars, try to bring as many AD as possible to bare on one WS at a time (less important with the new version as with the 3+ dodge). because adaptive armor doesn't reduce danmage below 1 per weapon, normal damage weapons with twin linked or more AD are better than their more powerfull counterparts (more likely to penetrate dodge and score some damage). Of coarse even better are lots of small ships with Anti-fighter weapons (EA patrole and skermish ships with missiles for example). Furthermore concider the Vree who can match or beat white stars for manuverability and numbers and have good anti figher weapons (but be carefull as those low hull scores are neutron laser fodder).

i'd also like to point out that WS can skin dance, and that that ability has saved at least one WS in every game i've played. The ability to completely evade most of your enemy's weapons is well worth the risk of smashing into the enemy's hull (plus in multiplayer games the third guy usually fires on that ship hoping he'll get 2 for one if it explodes while my WS is skin dancing).

the final point i'd like to make is in regards to the ISA's choice of allies. personally i like a Moroshin if i'm playing at high enough PL as it makes your nails so much more effective. other good shoices are scouts (Vree Varls, being the best). redirect fire helps the ISA make the most of their small numbers of AD, and if you get 2 redirects on one target all your WS wepons basiclly become twin linked, not to mention a redirect on a lightning cannon (again this often is to risky to be worthwhile, but has done wonders for me if done at just the right time).

 

[LordClinto]

I agree that the Morshin is one of the best ally choices for a nial heavy ISA Fleet.

A little trick for your Vic is, always boresight it on a ship within range of the Lightning Cannon, even if you always bluff & never plan on using the weapon. The first time you use this trick it may keep your opponent off balance thinking, "Is the Vic going to fire the Cannon? :shock: "

Obviously with it's new Armageddon stats most people won't shoot the Cannon but that no reason not to scare your opponent if you can.

And just for the hell of it the second or third time you try this trick on someone, (obviously in a non-threatning situation for your Vic), fire the gun to keep your opponent off-balance.

 

[Burger]

Whenever the PL and FAP's allow you to take a WS carrier, do it. They rule.

 

[Alexb83]

Bearing in mind the comment of the person above you, would you recommend a WS Carrier over a Morshin? (I take it that ISA can take Battle level ships as allies?) The fleet carrier bonus is still there, and the Morshin can also recover any Nials/Tishats that you bought separately, whilst the WS Carrier can't.

But then the WS Carrier can deal and take more damage, and WS fighters are better than Nials.

 

[Burger]

WS Carrier is way better than a Morshin... it should be, it is War level! It has 8 WS Fighters, whereas Morshin "only" has 8 Nials.

In campaigns you can take 1 Battle point's worth of allies, split up however you like. A Morshin is an excellent choice, because it allows you to top-up the Nials from your White Stars for free. You don't actually need to field the Morshin, just have it in your fleet list, breeding Nials. Nials at 5 RR for one flight are a complete rip-off.

 

[LordClinto]

WS Carrier is way better than a Morshin... it should be, it is War level! It has 8 WS Fighters, whereas Morshin "only" has 8 Nials.

In campaigns you can take 1 Battle point's worth of allies, split up however you like. A Morshin is an excellent choice, because it allows you to top-up the Nials from your White Stars for free. You don't actually need to field the Morshin, just have it in your fleet list, breeding Nials. Nials at 5 RR for one flight are a complete rip-off.

I personally would take both in a campaign (granted thats 3 FAP points tied up), just to have "generators" for both WS Fighters and Nials!

 

[Burger]

I personally would take both in a campaign (granted thats 3 FAP points tied up), just to have "generators" for both WS Fighters and Nials!

A generator for WS Fighters is pretty useless though... not likely to field them independently at 1 skirmihs point each, and the only other ship that carries them is the Gunship, which is not worth its weight in lead.

 

[Alexb83]

Would fighters generated by an allied Morshin benefit from the +1 to CQ for the rest of the fleet?

Same for Tishats, I guess...

 

[LordClinto]

A generator for WS Fighters is pretty useless though... not likely to field them independently at 1 skirmihs point each, and the only other ship that carries them is the Gunship, which is not worth its weight in lead.

So, you wouldn't take a WS Carrier in a game then? It seems like they are pretty hard (in comparison to the whole WS class in general that is!).

 

[Burger]

A generator for WS Fighters is pretty useless though... not likely to field them independently at 1 skirmihs point each, and the only other ship that carries them is the Gunship, which is not worth its weight in lead.

So, you wouldn't take a WS Carrier in a game then? It seems like they are pretty hard (in comparison to the whole WS class in general that is!).

Yes definitely, they are kickass ships!!! But they are for putting into battle, not sitting at home having little baby WS Fighters.

 

[Burger]

Would fighters generated by an allied Morshin benefit from the +1 to CQ for the rest of the fleet?

Same for Tishats, I guess...

No, ISA's allies do not get +1 CQ, since they are not crewed by Rangers. The Morshin is crewed by "standard" Minbari.

 

[katadder]

whitestar carriers are good ships but dont beat 2 morshins due to nials being as good dogfighters as whitestar fighters and the morshins having stealth instead of a 5+ dodge.

 

[Burger]

nials being as good dogfighters as whitestar fighters

Apart from the ISA +1 CQ.

 

[Hash]

Katadder - maybe as dogfighters you are right, but I think you underestimate the devastating destructive power of the WS fighter and their ship destroying potential...

 

[katadder]

nope if you can get them their i know they are deadly, especially if you geta 6,6 crit (like one of mine did on a nova) but you cant ignore the dogfight ability anyway as this is whats needed to get them their in the 1st place. if i was to fight a WS carrier with 2 morshins half my fighters would be tiashats anyway so again on equal dogfight but with supoprting nials to make it better.

 

[Burger]

nope if you can get them their i know they are deadly, especially if you geta 6,6 crit (like one of mine did on a nova) but you cant ignore the dogfight ability anyway as this is whats needed to get them their in the 1st place. if i was to fight a WS carrier with 2 morshins half my fighters would be tiashats anyway so again on equal dogfight but with supoprting nials to make it better.

But then, the ISA player has a Dag'Kar as his allies and you're screwed. Nials dead in 1 turn, and the WS fighters could probably kill a Morshin per turn.

 

[Majeh]

Make attack runs with the white stars. Just keep moving in the same direction hitting whatevers in front then make another pass with those 90 degree turns after egtting some distance.

 

[Alexb83]

nials being as good dogfighters as whitestar fighters

Apart from the ISA +1 CQ.

Sure, but with a Morshin, you get your +1 to dogfight, as well as a chance of recovery to the fleet carrier, and you'll outnumber the ISA fighters, too. At MoW my Morshin and 2 spare Nials cleaned house against Greg's Tbolts and Nials, with enough spare to go after their whitestars.
2 Morshins against 1 WS Carrier at war level and above, and below that you've got 1 Morshin for every 5 whitestars.

And in the event that ISA get +1 command bonus, you can always take Tishats on a Morshin to even their dogfighting ability.

 

[katadder]

nope if you can get them their i know they are deadly, especially if you geta 6,6 crit (like one of mine did on a nova) but you cant ignore the dogfight ability anyway as this is whats needed to get them their in the 1st place. if i was to fight a WS carrier with 2 morshins half my fighters would be tiashats anyway so again on equal dogfight but with supoprting nials to make it better.

But then, the ISA player has a Dag'Kar as his allies and you're screwed. Nials dead in 1 turn, and the WS fighters could probably kill a Morshin per turn.

but then you are going into even more points than just war, a raid pt for example as it now seems to be a 5 pt raid fleet, so i see your dag'kar and raise it 2 torotha JP bombs so that the dag'kar dies b4 it ever fires

not debating that the whitestar carrier isnt a good ship but it is a war level vessel and when compared to alot of the others its not that good, it does rely on its fighters of which their are only 8, 2 omegas match that with star furys, which whilst not as good does stop the whitestar attacking if on CAP and allows the omegas anti fighter weapons to kill the WS fighter.