Tachyon Anything

[Jeff Hopper]

A tachyon is a theoretical particle that travels faster than light and backwards in time. The problem I have with their inclusion in Traveller is that if you can emit or control tachyons (even if it just from a cannon), then you have faster than light communications (even if it is as simple as morse code) and potentially time travel (which violates causality). This can be a problem in Traveller because you have just shot a hole in one of the iconic ideas for Traveller by making the speed of communications not be that of the fastest ship.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Referees decide if a setting uses them or not.

 

[Belisknar]

Referees decide if a setting uses them or not.

I think Jeff's point is that since it's listed with standard weaponry and not in High Technology, it's likely or technically OTU which would be a huge deal in terms of possibility of FTL coms.

Just because a Referee disbelieves it, doesn't make it not Canon.

 

[Nerhesi]

Perhaps we find out our theories were a little off and it's moving at c not beyond... I mean, we've got Subatomic particles creating radiation at calibrated destinations - Meson Weapons. I believe at some point in traveller history Meson was actually stated to be a name that has nothing do with how the weapons work.

So another option, is Tachyon really do anything with Tachyons, but as some early point there was reason to confuse it as such, just like Meson weapons...

 

[wbnc]

There is a leap between a short range weapon that blasts of tachyons, and a tightly controlled system capable of transferring data across parsecs. It could simply be stated, assumed, inferred that the technology isn't viable as a form of communication at the current level of technology.

Possible in game limiting factors that could be limits on Tachyon comms....The beam/pulse looses cohesion over interstellar distances. The ability to precisely control the stream/pulse with the degree of precision needed to us it as a radio is still limited, or natural forces/environments cause distortion, "noise" in a tachyon pulses sent over interstellar distances.

 

[NOLATrav]

Yep, they're actually bradyon cannons but tachyon sounded kewler

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Just because a Referee disbelieves it, doesn't make it not Canon.

Huh? Referees decide such things. Not every Traveller game uses Traveller's setting. If players are arguing with a referee about canon, that is a different thing entirely from playing a role-playing game.

Anyway, Traveller 5's "setting" now has all kinds of drive tech. The word tachyon may not be used to describe things. But there is stuff travelling faster than jump-6, whether being worm-holed/jump-spaced/actually-fast.

 

[Belisknar]

Just because a Referee disbelieves it, doesn't make it not Canon.

Huh? Referees decide such things. Not every Traveller game uses Traveller's setting. If players are arguing with a referee about canon, that is a different thing entirely from playing a role-playing game.

Anyway, Traveller 5's "setting" now has all kinds of drive tech. The word tachyon may not be used to describe things. But there is stuff travelling faster than jump-6, whether being worm-holed/jump-spaced/actually-fast.

Do you understand the concept of context?

By simply quoting that one line from my post, to make your point, you completely remove its context.

In terms of settings I don't dispute the fact that a referee can make a decision that removes a certain piece of technology. I was not disputing your opinion or stance. I was noting that your post made it seem like you may have been taking a very narrow look at what the original poster was actually saying.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

In terms of settings I don't dispute the fact that a referee can make a decision that removes a certain piece of technology. I was not disputing your opinion or stance. I was noting that your post made it seem like you may have been taking a very narrow look at what the original poster was actually saying.

And I'm just pointing out that there is a referee in a game. They're kind of a big deal. Bigger than any canon or setting or rule. Otherwise, they should be called bench warmers.

 

[Kaelic]

In terms of settings I don't dispute the fact that a referee can make a decision that removes a certain piece of technology. I was not disputing your opinion or stance. I was noting that your post made it seem like you may have been taking a very narrow look at what the original poster was actually saying.

And I'm just pointing out that there is a referee in a game. They're kind of a big deal. Bigger than any canon or setting or rule. Otherwise, they should be called bench warmers.

Shawn people are here to discuss the rules, yet you jump in so many threads and drop the comment "Oh the referee can decide.". Please, really, stop doing this.

 

[Belisknar]

In terms of settings I don't dispute the fact that a referee can make a decision that removes a certain piece of technology. I was not disputing your opinion or stance. I was noting that your post made it seem like you may have been taking a very narrow look at what the original poster was actually saying.

And I'm just pointing out that there is a referee in a game. They're kind of a big deal. Bigger than any canon or setting or rule. Otherwise, they should be called bench warmers.

For the love of what ever higher power...

I have held my tongue in so many bloody threads when reading your comments. Hell I even tried to say that I wasn't disagreeing with you in this one.

AND YOU STILL feel the need to argue "Referee is Game God!!!"

OP made a point about a possibility. You came in and cried referee. LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO. Before anyone even commented on the notion of the idea.

I, clearly misguided, thought I'd point out what I believed OP might have been talking about and the implication it might have on the 'OFFICIAL Traveller Universe' pointing out that a referee has no baring on that. (And before you bitch and whine again I'm talking about a single referee having an official impact on it. Obviously I know that a Referee can do whatever they want in their own game. I feel I need to say that or you'll have to let me know.)

I never dismissed the importance of a referee, or the fact that setting is not set in stone. I was referencing OTU and I believed that OP was referencing OTU. YOU chose to dismiss the fact that I stated that fact when you took my statement out of context to try to make me look stupid.

 

[-Daniel-]

Shawn people are here to discuss the rules, yet you jump in so many threads and drop the comment "Oh the referee can decide.". Please, really, stop doing this.

I have to admit, I have to keep reminding myself when I am discussing the Beta to focus on the rules as written. When I am discussing my games then I can speak about how I do things or how rules can be ignored or changed for my table.

I agree with Kaelic; here in the Beta section we need to discuss the rules as written. To help Mongoose make the rules as clear and clean as we can. Then once Mongoose sends the rules out into the world we can discuss how we merge them with our vision at our table. 8)

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Perhaps we find out our theories were a little off and it's moving at c not beyond... I mean, we've got Subatomic particles creating radiation at calibrated destinations - Meson Weapons. I believe at some point in traveller history Meson was actually stated to be a name that has nothing do with how the weapons work.

So another option, is Tachyon really do anything with Tachyons, but as some early point there was reason to confuse it as such, just like Meson weapons...

Why not just bring back the Meson Weapons? That way it all stays within the context of Traveller's history.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

There is a leap between a short range weapon that blasts of tachyons, and a tightly controlled system capable of transferring data across parsecs. It could simply be stated, assumed, inferred that the technology isn't viable as a form of communication at the current level of technology.

Possible in game limiting factors that could be limits on Tachyon comms....The beam/pulse looses cohesion over interstellar distances. The ability to precisely control the stream/pulse with the degree of precision needed to us it as a radio is still limited, or natural forces/environments cause distortion, "noise" in a tachyon pulses sent over interstellar distances.

None of those limitations are listed in the playtest.

So, what is keeping you from using this blast of tachyons to send morse code to another site?

 

[Jeff Hopper]

And I'm just pointing out that there is a referee in a game. They're kind of a big deal. Bigger than any canon or setting or rule. Otherwise, they should be called bench warmers.

You like to say this a lot.

The problem with this view is that if the Referee is bigger than the setting or game, then why do they need the rules for the game? You seem to be arguing against having Traveller exist at all.

 

[wbnc]

There is a leap between a short range weapon that blasts of tachyons, and a tightly controlled system capable of transferring data across parsecs. It could simply be stated, assumed, inferred that the technology isn't viable as a form of communication at the current level of technology.

Possible in game limiting factors that could be limits on Tachyon comms....The beam/pulse looses cohesion over interstellar distances. The ability to precisely control the stream/pulse with the degree of precision needed to us it as a radio is still limited, or natural forces/environments cause distortion, "noise" in a tachyon pulses sent over interstellar distances.

None of those limitations are listed in the playtest.

So, what is keeping you from using this blast of tachyons to send morse code to another site?

Then this is when you ask for a clarification, or some explanation of the lack of comms which is why were here...you raised a good question. so I tried to answer it

as to why tachyon cannons cant be used for low density dot-dash-dot type comms. My personal favorite reason would be that tachyons become distorted, or fly off in random directions at interstellar distances.

or maybe the use of a tachyon cannon hasn't been used as FTL transmission isn't used is the fact it's been ignored sense it cant carry info at a density that is useful to those with the money to put the system into use.

 

[Nerhesi]

Jeff, if we can reduce what people have been trying to state in this thread to answer your concern, in the simplest logical form:

Jeff: Tachyon does not make sense as that denotes faster than light technology, which has wider implications. It needs to be explained clearly.

Others: Many many many things in Traveller are not explained clearly, could be easily construed to have wider implications, and yet are accepted and Canon.

Therefore, the fact that something is not explained clearly, or contradicts existing theories or notions, is not a reason for it not to be in Traveller.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Jeff, if we can reduce what people have been trying to state in this thread to answer your concern, in the simplest logical form:

Jeff: Tachyon does not make sense as that denotes faster than light technology, which has wider implications. It needs to be explained clearly.

Others: Many many many things in Traveller are not explained clearly, could be easily construed to have wider implications, and yet are accepted and Canon.

Therefore, the fact that something is not explained clearly, or contradicts existing theories or notions, is not a reason for it not to be in Traveller.

Thank you for the patronizing response. I can now see why people have dropped out of the playtest if this is how concerns are addressed.

 

[Nerhesi]

Jeff, if we can reduce what people have been trying to state in this thread to answer your concern, in the simplest logical form:

Jeff: Tachyon does not make sense as that denotes faster than light technology, which has wider implications. It needs to be explained clearly.

Others: Many many many things in Traveller are not explained clearly, could be easily construed to have wider implications, and yet are accepted and Canon.

Therefore, the fact that something is not explained clearly, or contradicts existing theories or notions, is not a reason for it not to be in Traveller.

Thank you for the patronizing response. I can now see why people have dropped out of the playtest if this is how concerns are addressed.

I must apologise if you perceived this as patronizing. I honestly was trying clarify what myself and others were trying to point out, as I stated above, by simplifying it. By doing this, I was hoping you could either correct our (or at least my understanding) of what the issue is...

I think it is key to be able to critique rules and feedback to those rules, regardless of the source. We should be able to do so without somehow feeling like it is a personal attack.

 

[Nerhesi]

Perhaps we find out our theories were a little off and it's moving at c not beyond... I mean, we've got Subatomic particles creating radiation at calibrated destinations - Meson Weapons. I believe at some point in traveller history Meson was actually stated to be a name that has nothing do with how the weapons work.

So another option, is Tachyon really do anything with Tachyons, but as some early point there was reason to confuse it as such, just like Meson weapons...

Why not just bring back the Meson Weapons? That way it all stays within the context of Traveller's history.

Actually, it came from Marc directly, that Meson weapons are not to be Canon except as Spinal Weapons. This was I believe more clearly identified in another thread.