Surcouf Class Submarine?

[DM]

I've taken part in a few expeditions along these lines as well over the last few years, albeit mostly in UK waters - always good fun, and a rare opportunity to get one's ugly mug on TV

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'm insanely jealous... :evil:

 

[chaos0xomega]

Hmph, I always thought that damned thing was fixed in position. Oh well.

If they do decide to search for the surcouf, how do I get involved? Seeing as how it's been my first submarine since I first layed eyes on it some 13 years ago(when I was 4!), I think I deserve to be on said expedition.

Oh, and patrol is looking better and better..... better and better....

You know, there should be a special rule concerning firing for the 8". On the turn the Surcouf surfaces, it may only fire straight ahead, as the crews haven't had enough time to rotate the turret, prefering to keep the surcouf hull streamlined whilst submerged.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

You know, there should be a special rule concerning firing for the 8". On the turn the Surcouf surfaces, it may only fire straight ahead, as the crews haven't had enough time to rotate the turret, prefering to keep the surcouf hull streamlined whilst submerged.

I don't think that's at all fair, there's nothing to stop the Yamato, as an example, firing a broadside to Port on Turn 1, and to Starboard on Turn 2. Turret turning times are entirely ignored in this game.

Wulf

 

[BuShips]

I've taken part in a few expeditions along these lines as well over the last few years, albeit mostly in UK waters - always good fun, and a rare opportunity to get one's ugly mug on TV

Ah, even more reason to give me first pick of the seats, since you've done this before :lol: I don't buy lottery tickets, but if I did and won, I would be spending it in a rather unique way from most people on this Earth. I'd start by doing dives on some of the sunken warship sites like the Prince of Wales / Repulse. Then I'd start looking for and photographing ships like the Fuso, Yamashiro, Hiei, Kirishima, Exeter, Houston, etc. I would love to be on an expedition to hunt for and explore the sister ship of the Yamato, the Musashi, as I think it might be intact where it rests. I would think it's rather deep, but reachable with modern methods. The Yamato has been located but the Musashi hasn't. I would think that would make a great expedition. Cousteau, Ballard, and now Cameron have explored areas like Guadalcanal, Truk, Titanic, Bismarck and Hood, but there are years of research and adventure left to those with an interest in naval history. I believe one way to start the search for the Surcouf would be to get permission to DNA-identify the two unknown sailors that were buried on a caribean coastline that were found at sea near the Panama Canal. If they could be identified as part of the crew of 130 of the Surcouf, then you wouldn't have to look for the sub around Long Island Sound :wink: . For a sub of over 3000 tons and well over a 300' length, it might be discovered.

 

[chaos0xomega]

They actually have a pretty good idea of where it sunk. Somewhere in the gulf, near panama. That's what I seem to remember anyway.

I don't think that's at all fair, there's nothing to stop the Yamato, as an example, firing a broadside to Port on Turn 1, and to Starboard on Turn 2. Turret turning times are entirely ignored in this game.

Yeah, but I want the Surcouf in Patrol, so it's a concession I'm willing to make. Not that I have any real say in all this, but I can influence it. Besides, a Yamato would at least be a Battle or War. At Patrol you could bring at least 6 Surcouf's to bear on a singel Yamato, possibly more(don't know the conversions, sorry). Besides, it's not that bad if you THINK. If you position your Surcouf whilst submerged to have the target warship in front of it, then there is no problem in it only being able to fire forward when it rises from the depths. This will only add to the feel of realism in the game, as well as the tactical planning involved.

Besides that, I don't see you complaining about normal submarines that DONT have twin 8" deck guns on them. There torps can only fire forward, why aren't you complaining about that? This is no different. The fact that the Surcouf COULD fire a weapon sideways is bonus enough.

 

[BuShips]

They actually have a pretty good idea of where it sunk. Somewhere in the gulf, near panama. That's what I seem to remember anyway.

There are a few other theories that suggest other fates for the sub, but yes, the "official" report was that the US freighter Thompson Lykes collided with it. This is all I had known about it, until reading that the US ship wasn't damaged nearly as much as it should have been. Some of the other theories have it being sunk by the United States by subs or planes or even a blimp. Possible reasons postulate rumors of the Surcouf sinking allied vessels, then returning to allied ports to replenish supplies and torpedoes :!: , and even refueling German U-boats in either Block Island or Long Island Sound. The Surcouf story only gets more confused and interesting the more you dig into it. :wink:

 

[chaos0xomega]

Well, if I do manage to get into MIT(therefore proving there is a God in heaven, but that's a different story), I'll make sure to borrow, erm.... befriend some like-minded people and have them enslaved...erm.... aid me in researching it's location, and then raising it from the ocean floor....... with me getting all the credit :twisted:

Hell, I'll do that even if I don't get into MIT. My name, I can see it now in all the History books..... ::initiate dream sequence::....

 

[DM]

Fortunately the style of damage from a collision is fairly distinctive, as is weapon induced damage. In simple terms, if you can get a half decent look at the size and shape of the hole its possible to tell one from the other, and with some thought you can work out the size of the amming ship, or the likely charge weight of the weapon that did the damage.

 

[BuShips]

Fortunately the style of damage from a collision is fairly distinctive, as is weapon induced damage. In simple terms, if you can get a half decent look at the size and shape of the hole its possible to tell one from the other, and with some thought you can work out the size of the amming ship, or the likely charge weight of the weapon that did the damage.

On one of the sites I was reading, a person claimed to have seen the damage on the Thompson Lykes. To him it didn't appear to indicate a collision with a sub that has such a large displacement (almost as much as the freighter!). My thought was that if the remains of the two "unknowns" that were buried ashore (picked up by a different vessel) could be identified, it might shed more light on the mystery. At the very least, it could let identified remains be returned to living relatives.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Isn't it possible though that the Thomson Lykes collided with the Surcouf's conning tower/8" weapon turret? That would probably result in damage similar to the Thomson Lykes.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the Gov't would admit to having it's own ship 'possibly' collide with the Surcouf if they really intended to sink it.

 

[BuShips]

Isn't it possible though that the Thomson Lykes collided with the Surcouf's conning tower/8" weapon turret? That would probably result in damage similar to the Thomson Lykes.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the Gov't would admit to having it's own ship 'possibly' collide with the Surcouf if they really intended to sink it.

I really have no idea. It probably was the freighter. Anything I'd say otherwise would be speculation, because the history about it is clouded (thus its interest). Here is a snippet from a wiki site:

Sinking of the Surcouf. This was initially attributed to a collision with the US Freighter Thompson Lykes, but a later report stated that the Surcouf was mistaken for a U-boat and destroyed by US planes. Which event occurred is disputed by historians.

and-

The official report states that she left Bermuda on 12 February and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the American freighter Thompson Lykes near the Panama canal.
Disregarding the predictable ones about her being swallowed by the Bermuda Triangle, one of the most popular is that she was caught in Long Island Sound refueling a German U-boat, and both submarines were sunk, either by the American submarines Marlin and Mackerel or a US Coast Guard blimp.

Now this is interseting to read. He seems to be very motivated to "defend" the history of the Surcouf. This just adds to the story (and research, heh).

http://cgi.benl.ebay.be/WORLDS-WORS...QQitemZ4622518880QQcategoryZ378QQcmdZViewItem

Well, now we have a cash prize maybe of $1,000,000 US if we find the sub, heh. :wink:

 

[chaos0xomega]

Hey, my aunt on uncle live right by the sound. I call dibs!

 

[chaos0xomega]

Hey, my aunt and uncle live right by the sound. I call dibs!

 

[Captain_Nemo]

I'm always amazed at what you can find on eBay :shock:

Anyway here's a pic of Panzerschiffe's Surcouf

As the maighty Agis has indicated it's sorely lacking in detail but it's cheap.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Not bad. Scale, size, cost?

 

[BuShips]

chaos0xomega, all of the Panzerschiffe naval miniatures are done in 1/2400 scale. The model should be under 2" long (around 1.8") to be in 1/2400 scale. Maybe johng859 has a link for you to find the cost of that particular model, but in the Panzerschiffe catalog it is listed at $1.50. The shipping is likely to cost more than the model, heh. Oh, I checked GHQ for a high quality option for you, but alas they do not make a model of the Surcouf.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Eh, that panzerschiffe one is fine.

So... how are the rules coming along? I take it they are going to be in S&P??

 

[Captain_Nemo]

here's the link to Panzerschiffe's French Warships

http://www.panzerschiffe.com/French_Warships_from_World_War_II.html

I bought my Italians from them and I like'em! They are no where near as beautiful as GHQ but they are functional and they are single cast models.

 

[chaos0xomega]

Hmmm, I can order something like 30 of these things for only 45 american. NICE!