Stun Weapons and Armor

[dayriff]

I'm not entirely happy with how stun weapons work. I don't mind the basic mechanic, that if you're hit you're very likely to go down. (That high a penalty to an endurance check is brutal.)

However, I feel that stun weapons should be nearly useless against armored foes. They are primarily a tool for civilian crowd control, but they're not much good at punching through anything heavier than a thin cotton t-shirt. Cops use them, not military. I'm considering the simple solution of doubling armor values versus stunners.

Thoughts? Anybody else tried that variation?

 

[rinku]

Can't see a problem with it. An alternative would be to introduce stun shielding as an armour upgrade, or limit the double effect to enclosed armour such as vacc suits and battledress. You could also make the End check easier if you think stunners are generally overpowered. Which way you want to swing depends on how much of an issue you feel it is, and what your conception of a "stunner" is.

 

[dayriff]

Can't see a problem with it. An alternative would be to introduce stun shielding as an armour upgrade, or limit the double effect to enclosed armour such as vacc suits and battledress. You could also make the End check easier if you think stunners are generally overpowered. Which way you want to swing depends on how much of an issue you feel it is, and what your conception of a "stunner" is.

Basically, I want stunners to be a law enforcement weapon, not a military weapon. I'm comfortable with players using stunners to take down gang members or drunks in a bar, but not a serious combatant. Whether a bad guy is wearing armor or not seems a pretty good distinction.

 

[BP]

How about:

• If no 'damage ' gets through armor, then no END check.
  END check defense difficulty level is lower for partial and again for full armour (i.e. +2 and +4 or even +4, +6)

The highest damage from stunner/stun grenade is 3d6. Combat armor starts at 12. So 18 -12 means max damage DM for endurance check is -6, which is mostly canceled out by the +4 added Difficulty (to the hit). And this is assuming a damage roll of 6, 6, 6. ( :twisted: )

Lower TL hand stunner damage will not get through at all - only grenade and higher TL stunner have even a chance against Combat Armour and lowest BattleDress. And then it is fairly remote, and END check gets +4 DM.

18+ armor (like high TL BattleDress) is thus immune, and other forms are very well protected (and immune against lower TL hand stunners).

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

How about:

• If no 'damage ' gets through armor, then no END check.
  END check defense difficulty level is lower for partial and again for full armour (i.e. +2 and +4 or even +4, +6)

The highest damage from stunner/stun grenade is 3d6. Combat armor starts at 12. So 18 -12 means max damage DM for endurance check is -6, which is mostly canceled out by the +4 added Difficulty (to the hit). And this is assuming a damage roll of 6, 6, 6. ( :twisted: )

Lower TL hand stunner damage will not get through at all - only grenade and higher TL stunner have even a chance against Combat Armour and lowest BattleDress. And then it is fairly remote, and END check gets +4 DM.

18+ armor (like high TL BattleDress) is thus immune, and other forms are very well protected (and immune against lower TL hand stunners).

Seems good, but I can also see the thinking behind just calling stunner a ST weapons, and doubling all armour values, which will make targets wearing combat armour immune, whilst those wearing, say, cloth 5 pt, are still vulnerable, but not nearly as much as before.

On a related topic, do other GM apply the effect bonus to stunner damage? This came up during a game recently, I ruled that stunners did not benefit from a good effect bonus, because they are something of an all or nothing weapon, and I didn't want to increase their impact even more, I was envisaging some kind of energy weapon that would overload the nervous system. Not sure I made the right call, though the nasty would be assassin got knocked out anyway.

Egil

 

[Captain Jonah]

Like the idea of just doubling the armour, it sems to work and its simple.

In terms of adding effect I say yes, its like any other weapon hit. Shoot someone in the hand with a slug/laser/stunner and it will hurt, shoot them in the head and they are going down. It increases stunners to be even more effective but by doubling armour against them tech 8 flak or tech 12 vacc suit will stop a 2d dead unless you hit them in a joint or the neck (add effect). Even then not much stun will get through. Against a target in even lower tech combat armour (12 x 2) or Battledress (16 x 2) the best stun weapon in the 3I in the hands of the finest gunner who ever lived do zip.

Of course you evil ancient tech can come rolling in with meson stunners, Psionic stunners and such like. :twisted:

 

[rust]

In my view the damage done by a stun weapon would depend on the tech-
nology used to create the stun effect.

For example, body armour without head protection would be useless as a
protection against stun weapons that create a "sensory overload" to stun
the target, like "flashbang" grenades, blinding lasers or sonic weapons,
while on the other hand a helmet sealed against flashes of bright light and
loud noise would protect against all such stun weapons even if the target
would wear no other armour.

As for electric stun weapons, any clothing that isolates the body from the
environment would protect the target, even if this clothing had no armour
value at all, while an armour with high armour value that does not isolate
the body would be useless (think of chainmail or plate, which could make
an electric stun attack even worse).

 

[Egil Skallagrimsson]

In terms of adding effect I say yes, its like any other weapon hit. Shoot someone in the hand with a slug/laser/stunner and it will hurt, shoot them in the head and they are going down. It increases stunners to be even more effective but by doubling armour against them tech 8 flak or tech 12 vacc suit will stop a 2d dead unless you hit them in a joint or the neck (add effect). Even then not much stun will get through. Against a target in even lower tech combat armour (12 x 2) or Battledress (16 x 2) the best stun weapon in the 3I in the hands of the finest gunner who ever lived do zip.

Yeah, the more I think about it I was wrong to disregard the effect. Luckily it made no difference anyway.

Egil

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

How about using the "Poor Against Armor" feature that was introduced in CSC?

That gives you an existing game mechanic that you can apply to this weapon.