Storage Size is Wonky....

[Infojunky]

Sat down last night to build out some Classic era vehicles in the latest rev, and it worked fine except for the shipping sizes, which are VERY Wonky.

Ex. A Air/raft, 4 passengers, 4 tons (mass) cargo, 20 spaces and 10 dTons shipping space.

Then I remembered that the the size of the internal spaces got smaller, without a corresponding decrease in the Shipping Volume.... It was 1/2 dTon per space with each space being 1/4 of
a dTon, now it probably should be 1 dTon per 5 spaces too follow on the previous ratio.

 

[Nerhesi]

Careful that shipping size is meticulously crafted for space to vehicle hull consistency... such that a 100 dton smallcraft is the same as a 100dton heavy grav vehicle

 

[Infojunky]

Ok then the fastest fix is switch Hull from spaces to Shipping size....

 

[MongooseMatt]

Forgive me, why is this wonky>? The air/raft in your example is an over-sized one - a basic four seater (as per Core Rulebook) is clocking in a 4 tons.

What am I missing?

(and as a quick caveat, remember shipping size is an approximation and used only how much space the vehicle takes up in a hold - assume some fuzzy area for equipment locking it in place, access to the vehicle itself, etc)

 

[Infojunky]

Matt I am only going with the sizes that Air/rafts have been CT. 4 dTons, carrying 4 people and 4 tons of cargo. Now 4 displacement tons is a box that encloses a vehicle that nearly 10 feet wide by 20 feet long and 10 feet tall, i.e. approx. the size of a Deuce and a Half truck (And a similar performance profile (Also note a Duece and half is rated at 5 tons of cargo on road, the 2.5 to of it's name is it's off-road cargo capacity)).

As such if you want to change the size or base performance statistics of and Air/raft that is fine, as long as you are willing to change your volumes. The Air/raft described is more the size of a Jeep, which the common shipping size was half a displacement ton (you cam pretty much ship 3 jeeps in a displacement ton).

Consider this, half of a displacement ton in a crate 5 feet by 5 feet by 10 feet long, this is the size of my old Motorcycle trailer, Which easily accommodates 4 large racing motorcycles. Or more frequently a Grand Prix Sidecar and two 750+cc Racing Bikes.

Also Consider the Standard 4 dTon Cargo Container, which by the current rules would require a truck with a minimum of 41 spaces to transport, said transport has a volume of 20.5 displacement tons. considering in a road width, said vehicle is a 100 feet long. 5 times the length of the volume it is designed to move.

Just some basic thoughts on the matter....

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Matt I am only going with the sizes that Air/rafts have been CT. 4 dTons, carrying 4 people and 4 tons of cargo. Now 4 displacement tons is a box that encloses a vehicle that nearly 10 feet wide by 20 feet long and 10 feet tall, i.e. approx. the size of a Deuce and a Half truck (And a similar performance profile (Also note a Duece and half is rated at 5 tons of cargo on road, the 2.5 to of it's name is it's off-road cargo capacity)).

As such if you want to change the size or base performance statistics of and Air/raft that is fine, as long as you are willing to change your volumes. The Air/raft described is more the size of a Jeep, which the common shipping size was half a displacement ton (you cam pretty much ship 3 jeeps in a displacement ton).

Consider this, half of a displacement ton in a crate 5 feet by 5 feet by 10 feet long, this is the size of my old Motorcycle trailer, Which easily accommodates 4 large racing motorcycles. Or more frequently a Grand Prix Sidecar and two 750+cc Racing Bikes.

Also Consider the Standard 4 dTon Cargo Container, which by the current rules would require a truck with a minimum of 41 spaces to transport, said transport has a volume of 20.5 displacement tons. considering in a road width, said vehicle is a 100 feet long. 5 times the length of the volume it is designed to move.

Just some basic thoughts on the matter....

The Air/Raft for Mongoose Traveller 2nd Edition is listed out on page 138. Classic Traveller is an older game system. Anyway, an Air/Raft could be stood on its end and placed in a very tight-ish walk-in closet if needed. Racing bikes can be hung from rafters. It's your ship to cram stuff in.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Matt I am only going with the sizes that Air/rafts have been CT. 4 dTons, carrying 4 people and 4 tons of cargo.

I am sorry, I think I am being very dense here...

The CT Air/Raft was 4 dtons - so is the one in the new Core Rulebook.

Sorry, what am I missing?

 

[Infojunky]

Matt I am only going with the sizes that Air/rafts have been CT. 4 dTons, carrying 4 people and 4 tons of cargo.

I am sorry, I think I am being very dense here...

The CT Air/Raft was 4 dtons - so is the one in the new Core Rulebook.

Sorry, what am I missing?

It might be me as well, so let me start again.

1. Did the size of a Space change? It was around 1/4 of a dTon, but it appears to have changed to 1/10 of a dTon.

1a. If so, shouldn't the ratio of spaces to to shipping volume change as well?

2. Cargo mass per space vs. equipment mass per space. This also relates to #1. It appears that they are equal, why? You should be able to get more Cargo in to the same space than equipement....

3. Counting Volume, Do you just count the floor level squares occupied, or the rough box that it fills up? What do you really mean by Shipping Size?

 

[MongooseMatt]

1. Did the size of a Space change? It was around 1/4 of a dTon, but it appears to have changed to 1/10 of a dTon.

1a. If so, shouldn't the ratio of spaces to to shipping volume change as well?

2. Cargo mass per space vs. equipment mass per space. This also relates to #1. It appears that they are equal, why? You should be able to get more Cargo in to the same space than equipement....

3. Counting Volume, Do you just count the floor level squares occupied, or the rough box that it fills up? What do you really mean by Shipping Size?

1. No, it is and always has been 250 kg - where are you getting 1/10th from?

2. Convenience, nothing more. It makes no sense running two separate systems for vehicles and so falls into the category of 'close enough.'

3. In a nutshell, roughly how much space the vehicle takes up when players try to load it onto their starship.

 

[Infojunky]

1. No, it is and always has been 250 kg - where are you getting 1/10th from?

Customisation chapter, pg 16
"Internal Bay
Large vehicles are fully capable of carrying smaller vehicles inside. An internal bay does not simply provide the ability to carry another vehicle (which can be achieved simply by dedicating cargo space to the task), but provides enough space to conduct basic maintenance and facilities to launch or deploy the vehicle inside.

An internal bay consumes a number of Spaces equal to the Shipping Size of the vehicle to be carried, multiplied by 10. It costs Cr1000 per Space."

Above Is the only place in the entire document that discusses vehicles internal volume in any concrete manor. Plus add in your own comments from earlier in this playtest on this subject. Quote you; "We are currently messing around with spacecraft weapons being put into vehicles, where the conversion rate is 1 dton = 10 Spaces."

To be honest the approx. Space volume and weight should be one of the 1st thing you tell us in the book.

2. Convenience, nothing more. It makes no sense running two separate systems for vehicles and so falls into the category of 'close enough.'

Er, sense? I t makes more sense for them to be different than the same in that Equipment needs access spaces and movement space where as Cargo doesn't. You were closer with one ton per space of cargo mass than you are now (Hint styrofoam is too heavy for your limits now)

3. In a nutshell, roughly how much space the vehicle takes up when players try to load it onto their starship.

Wasn't quite the question I was asking, well the last half you did, but not the 1st half.... If you are measuring a model, a car, what not how do you measure it. I convert a lot of Miniature vehicles to Traveller terms, now I generally measure a rough conformal box and use that to figure my volumes.

 

[Nerhesi]

This actually seems to be a simple problem around the internal bay, which is an oddity.
The problem is that Internal bay takes 10 times the spaces. Simply put, why not just make it consistent with the Full Hangar from highguard? double the spaces.

A full hangar takes up double the dtons of the craft.
20 dton fighter = 40dton full hangar
50 dton fighter = 100dton full hangar

For vehicles, it should therefore be:
10 space vehicle = 20 space hangar
200 space vehicle = 400 space hangar

Thats it, to avoid mixed messaging.

 

[MongooseMatt]

2 to 1 for the internal bay - done!

 

[Infojunky]

2 to 1 for the internal bay - done!

Works by me....

Still gonna argue about the equipment vs. cargo weight per space though...

Consider this, a 3 inch naval gun in a deck mount masses about 250 kilos with plenty of room to operate it in that one space. Break it down and you could store 3 or 4 broken down guns in the same single space.