Stems or bases?

[Methos5000]

I always liked the idea of adding a Base Contact line to all the basic ship data.

Basically it would list a number next to it and that is how many fighters/breaching pods can get into base contact of the ship regardless of how big or small the base is.

The base fighters (those without long range firepower) could have the range altered to "BC" instead of 2" and long range fighters would keep the longer range guns and their 2" guns would also be "BC" range.

The hard part being that the relative scale of ships is in question as there have been very few offical sizes ever listed for B5 Ships.

Balancing it out would probably prove rather difficult as well as what would be a good number of fighter bases to allow per ship.

A Base of 6 fighters is a good starting point but it seems odd that the same 6 bases of fighters swarming a Victory or Explorer could also swarm a much smaller ship like a Haven or a Bluestar for example.

Maybe something like 3 fighters against smaller targets and up to 9 against larger targets with 6 against medium sized targets.

Just a thought anyway.

Interesting thought. But 9 fighter bases? Ack.

Well a standard large mongoose base can get 8 hex fighter bases in base contact, if I recall correctly, this is only one more. And one of the Drakh Carriers my friend has is on a large GW base and I can fit 10 around that.

And now that I think about it, if you assault a ship with heavy fighters (WS Fighter for example as they are attached to a small Mongoose base) you can already get 9 of those around a large base. So really the big change is it would limit how many fighters can get around a "smaller" ship that for some reason comes on a large base.

A good example is the Brakiri. The Aviokis and Brokados are both rather large ships but they come with a tiny little 1" base from the AOG days (at least the ones I got came that way) but the Ikorta/Brikorta come with large bases. Granted there is an arguement for these ship being large as one carries 24 fighters and the other carries 10 "units" of Troops but thats why I think ships should be looked at on a per ship basis. The Ikorta/Brikorta should be at least medium sized ships while the scout could be a small ship.

Granted this is still more then what would be allowed in stem contact, but if stem contact was used all you would need is two well positioned fighters on the base and you make yourself completely immune to breaching pods until you deal with the fighters.

 

[David Anla Shok']

I always liked the idea of adding a Base Contact line to all the basic ship data.

Basically it would list a number next to it and that is how many fighters/breaching pods can get into base contact of the ship regardless of how big or small the base is.

The base fighters (those without long range firepower) could have the range altered to "BC" instead of 2" and long range fighters would keep the longer range guns and their 2" guns would also be "BC" range.

The hard part being that the relative scale of ships is in question as there have been very few offical sizes ever listed for B5 Ships.

Balancing it out would probably prove rather difficult as well as what would be a good number of fighter bases to allow per ship.

A Base of 6 fighters is a good starting point but it seems odd that the same 6 bases of fighters swarming a Victory or Explorer could also swarm a much smaller ship like a Haven or a Bluestar for example.

Maybe something like 3 fighters against smaller targets and up to 9 against larger targets with 6 against medium sized targets.

Just a thought anyway.

Interesting thought. But 9 fighter bases? Ack.

Well a standard large mongoose base can get 8 hex fighter bases in base contact, if I recall correctly, this is only one more. And one of the Drakh Carriers my friend has is on a large GW base and I can fit 10 around that.

And now that I think about it, if you assault a ship with heavy fighters (WS Fighter for example as they are attached to a small Mongoose base) you can already get 9 of those around a large base. So really the big change is it would limit how many fighters can get around a "smaller" ship that for some reason comes on a large base.

A good example is the Brakiri. The Aviokis and Brokados are both rather large ships but they come with a tiny little 1" base from the AOG days (at least the ones I got came that way) but the Ikorta/Brikorta come with large bases. Granted there is an arguement for these ship being large as one carries 24 fighters and the other carries 10 "units" of Troops but thats why I think ships should be looked at on a per ship basis. The Ikorta/Brikorta should be at least medium sized ships while the scout could be a small ship.

Granted this is still more then what would be allowed in stem contact, but if stem contact was used all you would need is two well positioned fighters on the base and you make yourself completely immune to breaching pods until you deal with the fighters.

The "Ack!" was for "holy crap!" I was not contesting the potential number of stands in contact.

 

[eldiablito]

Many of these ships just tip over if we glue them on small sized bases. Also, there are too many different scales and variations to easily have everyone start changing their bases.

Just stick to stems and feel comfortable that one of the "broken" fleets becomes nearly fixed with a single rule.

 

[Triggy]

I see no problem with playing everything to the stem and anything that "makes contact" such as Breaching Pods and Suicide Fighters having an "upper limit" (and being able to "stack" as you can remove them as soon as they make contact and AF guns fire).

 

[Taran]

Could determine how many can assault based on PL.
2 for Patrol
3 for Skirmish
4 for Raid
5 for Battle
6 for War
7 for Armaggeddon


Just the first set of numbers I pulled out of my backside. But they Do look pretty good from here...

 

[Rorschach]

Could determine how many can assault based on PL.
2 for Patrol
3 for Skirmish
4 for Raid
5 for Battle
6 for War
7 for Armaggeddon

Based on AF potential and crew levels, you'd keep Assault Pods viable better with:
2 for Patrol
4 for Skirmish
6 for Raid
8 for Battle
12 for War
16 for Armageddon

 

[David Anla Shok']

Could determine how many can assault based on PL.
2 for Patrol
3 for Skirmish
4 for Raid
5 for Battle
6 for War
7 for Armaggeddon


Just the first set of numbers I pulled out of my backside. But they Do look pretty good from here...

I'm thinking that PL isn't the way to go. PL is not only a valuation of a ships fighting power but also its commonality or availability. You cannot equate the Raid level Explorer with the Raid level White Star or Hyperion. Also, consider the Hyperion. It comes in Raid and Skirmish varieties. Unless one cobbles up a "size" statistic (mentioned earlier) this idea is pretty much useless. We would be better off simply relying on a fixed statistic, X number of bases within X number of inches or going crazy and allowing fighter bases in contact with the target ships stem to get support of some sort from other fighter bases in contact with them (much like the dogfight support rule)

 

[Target]

We based how many off the counters since they are kinda standard. 3 per arc.

 

[Triggy]

Could determine how many can assault based on PL.
2 for Patrol
3 for Skirmish
4 for Raid
5 for Battle
6 for War
7 for Armaggeddon


Just the first set of numbers I pulled out of my backside. But they Do look pretty good from here...

I'm thinking that PL isn't the way to go. PL is not only a valuation of a ships fighting power but also its commonality or availability. You cannot equate the Raid level Explorer with the Raid level White Star or Hyperion.

Actually, PL is nothing at all to do with commonality/availability, it is a pure reflection of its fighting value within that fleet.

I agree with the lack of direct comparability of ships though, as PL is an indication of fighting ability, not size, PL would't work that well for a fighter/pod cap. There would either have to be a flat rate (I'd vote for 6-8) or a rate based upon ship size (in an ideal world something like the Damage points divided by ten, rounding down, and add two).

 

[Gray Dagon]

The group I play with is wrapping up a campaign and this is an issue we talked about before starting. We looked at what seems to be 2 base sizes from mongoose and decided that any ship that could reasonably use the small base could be attacked by up to 4 fighter/pods a turn. It didnt matter what the base size was. Example I play Vree but mount my Xorr sized ships on old GW small bases because they're about a 1/4" bigger than mongooses small base, which leave my ships a little too top heavy, but because I could've/should've used a small base I get the 4 per turn. Large based ships get 6 fighters/pods a turn same idea the base size actually used doesn't matter, just what should reasonable be used. Our Gaim player voted for this method and it didn't seem to reduce his combat potential.

All that said I like Tarans' idea for X per ship based on PL but would need some play testing to find right numbers.

 

[akenatum]

A small note beside each ships entry as to the number of fighters/pod's that can make it to base contact would be fine by me.

 

[David Anla Shok']

The group I play with is wrapping up a campaign and this is an issue we talked about before starting. We looked at what seems to be 2 base sizes from mongoose and decided that any ship that could reasonably use the small base could be attacked by up to 4 fighter/pods a turn. It didnt matter what the base size was. Example I play Vree but mount my Xorr sized ships on old GW small bases because they're about a 1/4" bigger than mongooses small base, which leave my ships a little too top heavy, but because I could've/should've used a small base I get the 4 per turn. Large based ships get 6 fighters/pods a turn same idea the base size actually used doesn't matter, just what should reasonable be used. Our Gaim player voted for this method and it didn't seem to reduce his combat potential.

All that said I like Tarans' idea for X per ship based on PL but would need some play testing to find right numbers.

Put washers on the bottom of your bases. They will lower the center of gravity and make the models more stable.

 

[Gray Dagon]

Thanks, didn't think of using washers, probly try it on my new EA ships if needed.

 

[BuShips]

Thanks, didn't think of using washers, probly try it on my new EA ships if needed.

Last year I bought 2" washers for a project to use in the same way. They weren't for ACTA but I am working tonight on my first CTA minis and am considering using them as additional weights.

 

[David Anla Shok']

Best of luck. Some models can be balanced with simple circles of cut steel. Others benefit from thick washers.