Staterooms and Passage

phavoc

Emperor Mongoose
Is anyone interested in alternatives to the long-existing rules on travel and stateroom size? HG really threw a wrench into the old standard of a stateroom being 4 squares instead of 6 (and I've never gotten a reply for which rule is right... MGT seems to do both in their various publications).

So using my experience of travelling in planes, trains and ships, I came up with alternatives for both staterooms and passage levels. And I've also never understood why people would accept being frozen with a chance of death as the new steerage... or how for 8k CR you can travel in a stateroom that you can also sell for 10k CR.. and both of these being on a tramp freighter.

So I created 6 passage types instead of the original 3 - Frozen, Low/3rd Class, Middle/Standard/2nd Class, High/1st Class, Luxury/Gold Class, Super Luxurious/Iridium Class. Each type of passage has a different size stateroom associated with it. I did this because of my personal experience. If I stay at a Motel 6, its not the same as a suite at the Ritz. But sometimes I CAN pay 1st class fare at a Motel 6 (room shortage) and 'regular' hotel rates for a suite at the Ritz (Priceline!). But each motel keeps the same room setup, and just alters rates depending on circumstance. In Traveller that's not the case.

There's also new stateroom. 3rd class are 3 DT/2 DT on deckplans are cramped, but functional. No fresher, just a fold-down bunk, fold up chair, and a workstation. They would be equivalent to what submariners are used to (and a step-up from real old-fashioned steerage). Then they go all the way up to the Iridium class at 8DT / 6 DT on deckplan, which are a true suite, with own fresher, seperate bedroom, couches, etc.

I also altered station cabin size. Stations are not limited like ships are, so there should not be the same zeal to maximize the space.

Anyway, this is my next project to move from scibbles to typed up.
 
I would be very interested in your ideas for the staterooms and
the service for the lower priced passage types, because these
would be the most common ones in my setting, and a little less
interested in the more luxurious passage types.
 
I use 3 dton stateroom deckplans for a standard stateroom. The difference in Mid/High being food & service. I haven't designed any luxury liners yet. I would be interested in set ups for larger, more expensive cruise liners.
 
I think I had that simple, quick drawing posted on the SFRPG forum image gallery at one time.
If you notice, they are not placed exactly nor properly inline :).

Those are just some drawings that I keep handy when doing my ship deckplans.

I just threw them up here to help add to the discussion. Visuals are always helpful ;).

Dave Chase
 
The one with 4.5 m x 6 m has almost the size of the average
living space of one person in my setting's sea floor habitat,
30 square meters. Judging from your drawing, this is much
less roomy than I had thought. :shock:
 
Very nice new iterations of the stateroom. I may just use some of these designs for the 2dton rooms (classic 4 sq set-up) in future deckplans :wink:
 
The cubicles I imagined has a fold-away toilet bowl and sink in the shower unit to save space - after all, they all need the same systems and it's a ship - nobody expects luxury, even at the high end, for such things. I usually aim to put the shower cubicles back to back so they can share water and waste feeds. That usually allows room for a bed across the back wall (usually also built in and with lockers underneath and at the end is a pull-out desk which slides into a storage unit with a pull-out seat that slides into the bed. The computer (when one is provided) is built into the wall with any keyboards or control units being detachable or in the storage unit so that the user can use it as needed - these are usually tethered to prevent excessive damage in flight and theft.

I grew up with caravans so got kinda used to the "stack as much as possible into the tiny space" idea... you'd probably have more storage over the bed in a rack too in a standard cabin. If something isn't being used, it's folded out the way. Shared "freshers" are also a possible or the double cabin you have there (the 4.5m x 6m) is a good idea too (I've stuck to singles thus far).

The main difference between luxury and standard cabins, to me, is the service - with middle berths, you leave your cabin, join the queue to grab a meal at the Meal-a-Mat (instant-cooked stew, burger or nuggets made from an unidentifiable grey substance you hope is porkuswine or kelp... and not Soylent Green) washing it down with a cup of what they optimistically call "coffee", but tastes more like it was what you flushed down the fresher last night, spend a few minutes standing around chatting to guests before shuffling back to your cabin to lie on the bed and watch boring reruns of sport events, films or documentaries from the ship's archives just to fill the time. Never mind that you've seen them a dozen times each already. You do that for 8 days... (and this assumes you even have a terminal in your room...). When you arrive, you get the tabloid version of the news in the system you just arrived in and then guided off the ship by the steward or the crew as you struggle with your own luggage.

Luxury (High Berth) on the other hand, you get up to find that your previously-selected breakfast is waiting on the pull-out table for you already, complete with a copy of the latest news headlines on the ships' archives ready for you to view on your screen - downloaded right before jump transition, complete with latest financial and political news. After your freshly cooked breakfast, you do the usual in the fresher before getting dressed and going out to the lounge to converse with your other guests or spend the time watching the newly downloaded films and other entertainment that the ship downloaded before leaving the system. On a larger ship, you'd probably dine with the captain of the vessel at least once, if not every night, but all meals would be fresh (and identifiable) food, freshly prepared by the steward or the high-quality autochef. Lastly, before settling down, if you hadn't done it at the start of the journey, you'll select the next day's meals on the terminal before going to bed on the memory-foam mattress... On reaching your destination, you'll be greeted with the latest news (economic, political and sports) as soon as the ship translates back to normal space. On leaving the ship, you're either helped off with your luggage by the steward or one of the crew, or given the use of a cargo sled.

To me, it's all about the service and I think I'd tend to fall somewhere between having luxuries on board and stewards, depending on how much I was aiming for High Berth passengers.
 
These are similar to how GURPS traveller handles staterooms. They add a couple that Mongoose does not have. One of them is literally a 1 ton "box with a bed", just above low birth in cost of travel. They have no fresher, kitchenette, closet, only a desk/storage under a fold-down bed. GURPS requires public freshers and other facilities after a certain number of passengers within the common areas, (I guess so that somebody doesn't have to walk back to their rooms to take a leak).
Also, I brought this up several weeks ago, mongoose uses words like Staterooms AVERAGE size is ABOUT 3 tons. So I use that vague statement to allow smaller and large units, but the average is 3 tons. GURPS specifically says "2 tons" with the rest taken up in common areas such as corridors, ships lockers, passenger and crew lounges, galley, etc...
The way I have been handling Mongoose staterooms, is that the most flexible stateroom is the 3 ton room, but you can use the 2 ton room except you can ONLY rent those out to middle or working passengers. A high passenger requires a minimum 3 ton space. 4 ton spaces and up turn into "executive" or "presidential" rooms and suites.
Like some of your layouts though. I have about 6 versions, all in autocad, that I use for my designs. Speaking of which, what is the best way to upload your plans and images to this board?
 
Jak Nazryth said:
Speaking of which, what is the best way to upload your plans and images to this board?
Judging from our experiments in another thread, it
accepts .png, .jpg, .gif and .tif, but no text files like
.pdf, .odt or .txt.
 
I was going to ask "how?" but then realised that I'd been seeing that section on the reply page all along and NOT seeing it... :oops:

To me, the main difference between Middle and High is how well you're treated, as I said above... In middle you're basically dumped in a box and left to your own devices... in High, you're looked after or have a much better time of it. I don't think anyone is going to expect Luxury on the types of ships that players will be using and for other ships you could just wing it - a Luxury Cabin (able to take High and Luxury passengers) could, for example, cost double a standard cabin in both tonnage and credits.

I would like to have seen more options on the ship design pages though - Freshers (so you can put that Fresher in so the poor beggers who are staying at the other end of the ship from the lounge don't need to keep running back and forth), Communial Spaces (ie Lounges etc for when you want your ships to be extra luxurious) and Galley... for when those High and Luxury class passengers want freshly cooked food. An AutoChef would be a good High Class alternative to the Galley too.

I would so like to see a true ship designers handbook - High Guard goes so far, but I'd like to see one handle just basic ships (and maybe armour) and then refer back to High Guard for the weapons systems, but just hold the designer's hand a bit when creating ships - not all of us have access to the older Traveller books - having come late to the system... so the 1.5m squares as standard, the number of squares per dt and so on isn't immediately obvious... heck, I'm still getting confused now as to how many squares to the dt... :(
 
rust said:
The one with 4.5 m x 6 m has almost the size of the average
living space of one person in my setting's sea floor habitat,
30 square meters. Judging from your drawing, this is much
less roomy than I had thought. :shock:

30m2 is about 322ft2. Assuming there are public spaces readily available, that's not a bad number for private space per person, especially if families can group up and the cultural urge to have "stuff" is suppressed a bit. It's the rows of bachelor pads that will look like a rat warren...
 
Okay, here's the typed-up version. I'm not sure how pretty the tables will come through though.

Staterooms

Type Cost/jump Notes Cost (CR) Disp – Deckplan
Frozen CR 1,500 Corpsicle! 50,000ea 2 berths per 1 DT
Low / 3rd CR 3,000 No Steward 375,000 3 DT / 2 DT
Mid / Crew / 2nd CR 5,000 1 Steward / 20 cabins 500,000 4 DT / 3 DT
High / 1st CR 8,000 1 Steward / 10 cabins 625,000 5 DT / 4 DT
Luxury / Gold CR 11,000 1 Steward / 5 cabins 750,000 6 DT / 5 DT
Super Lux/ Iridium CR 15,000 1 Steward / 2 cabins 1,000,000 8 DT / 6 DT

Life support & supplies
CR 2,000 per month per occupied stateroom / CR 3,000 per month for double occupied. This covers life support, average food.
Life support costs – CR 1,500 /month or CR 375 /week. Only charged for occupied cabins during a voyage (opposite rule in book)

Food costs per week, per person
Low to Mid/Crew – CR 100 per week per person
High – CR 200 per week per person
Gold – CR 400 per week per person
Iridium – CR 800 per week per person

Notes on Ship Passage
Small ships that are not pure passenger liners may not carry passengers higher than middle except under special circumstances (such as a private yacht/liner/courier). The reason for this is that they do not have the necessary amenities that higher passengers require and demand.

Ships that cater to higher class passengers must also have sufficient space and facilities to cater to wealthier passengers (not to mention they need to separate them from their money). Additional facilities include theatres, bars, casinos, and restaurants. Smaller ships may carry smaller versions, or in some cases, the facilities may be multiple use (restaurant during they day, casino at night after a quick changeout).

Liners earn their money through passenger fares, special cargo and mail. They may also earn additional revenue through alcohol , gambling, shops with luxury goods, etc.

Stateroom Descriptions
Low / 3rd class – Found on small craft, intra-system liners, and low passage staterooms on starships. They provide adequate but cramped space for 2 people in an over/under bunk, and include a small desk with a computer terminal. Storage space is adequate for 2 passengers and their clothing and small goods (every centimeter of the room is used for something). The rooms do not have their own fresher. There is typically 1 fresher and shower (ea 1.5m x 1.5m) per 6 to 8 rooms. Older, lower TL (as well as military and para-military) ships typically use the 1 fresher/8 rooms. Starships carrying passengers usually adopt the 1 fresher per 6 rooms. These stateroom are meant for people travelling on a budget, but who have no desire to be frozen for the trip.

Middle / Crew / 2nd Class – Considered the standard sized stateroom for starships for both passengers and crew. They are adequate for people to occupy for the typical journey (they are also sometimes used on intra-system liners for passengers wiling to upgrade). Each stateroom has a small desk with a computer terminal, storage lockers and a small fresher (1.5 x 1.5). Most Imperial military ships consider this to be a crew cabin for two individuals.

High / 1st Class – Passengers travelling in a high passage cabin enjoy a comfortable journey from planet to planet. These rooms are well-appointed, often with synthetic textures and coverings for the walls as well as a plush carpet (lower class cabins have basic carpeting). There is a comfortable queen-sized bed that may be split into two singles if necessary, a small table with two chairs that also doubles as a computer terminal, and a comfortably sized fresher with both shower and toilet. The room is generally appointed with superior furnishings, trim, linens and such. This would be considered an officer’s cabin on most military ships (lower-ranking officers would typically double-up)

Luxury / Gold – Sumptuously appointed cabins that reek of luxury! They usually are divided into three sections – a sitting area, a sleeping area and a fresher. The sitting area has a couch that can sit three, a small table, and a built-wet bar (stocked with complimentary alcohol). The sleeping area has a large king-sized bed with a small table and two chairs. A computer workstation is also present (primarily activated using voice commands). The fresher area is divided with a toilet and sink in one area and a tub/shower in the 2nd area. The walls have many holographic frames that can be customized to display whatever the occupants wish to see. There is a 2m x 2m wall-mounted holographic display as well to watch movies and such on. The linens and towels are the finest available. On military ships these cabins would be reserved for VIP’s and officers of at least Captain rank or above.

Super Luxurious / Iridium – A suite fit for a king (or queen)! Each cabin offers passengers a luxurious oasis as they travel between the stars. The cabin is large and roomy, the bedroom has a large king-sized bed, a couch, sitting chair and table. There is a small toilet off the living area, and the main bathroom is accessible only through the bedroom, which includes both a roomy shower and a large tub (which offer both sonic and water-based options). The living room has a large comfortable sectional couch that easily sits 4 people, 2 chairs, 2 tables and a small wet bar.

General Stateroom Concepts
Any cabin may be sealed in an emergency to provide an air-tight compartment. Each 1 DT of space may support 1 person for 2hrs. Additional life support equipment may be added to offer survival-level atmosphere and water recycling at the cost of CR 10,000 for the first 24hrs and every additional 24hrs costs CR 1,000. Up to one week of emergency life support may be added to any cabin without additional displacement costs (the filtration and additional supply equipment takes up some of the available storage space and is also mounted in the floors/walls/ceilings).

All cabins have one emergency space suit for each occupant (typically 2 per any cabin, and additional ones will be added by ship’s stewards for small children, additional adults, etc. Rescue balls are provided for pets of a reasonable size). An emergency space suit consists of a touch plastic shell, and head/helmet area. The gloves are separate. The suit zips from the front. When the gloves are in place the suit can be pressurized, causing the front zipper to fuse, the wrist connections for the gloves also fuse. The helmet area is clear plastic and also hardens when pressurized. Life support is contained in an attached back-mounted unit. Suits are meant to be universal (will fit anyone 1m to 2.5m). The suits are naturally baggy and ill-fitting, but they are adequate to provide an air-tight suit for evacuation and emergencies. The suits offer 18hrs of life support, but no water, heating or toilet facilities. They are one-time use only, and cost CR 300. Rescue balls for small pets or children cost CR 200, and also include drugs designed to put the occupant in a very deep sleep for 24hrs (it includes the antidote inside). Suits for non-humans are also available.


Living Expenses
Standard of Living Cost / month Cost / day Soc Standing
Very poor CR 120 CR 4 2
Poor CR 200 CR 6.5 4
Low CR 300 CR 10 5
Average CR 400 CR 13 6
Good CR 600 CR 20 7
High CR 800 CR 26.5 8
Very High CR 1,000 CR 33 10
Rich CR 5,000 CR 167 12
Very Rich CR 10,000 CR 333 14
Ludicrously Rich CR 20,000 CR 667 15
Living expenses assume housing, food, clothing at basic levels

Example Hotel Costs
Cheap – CR 10/day
Good – CR 50/day
Luxury – CR 100/day (or more)
 
CT 6m dia module
Quarters, Crew Module.jpg

Medical

Medical rooms.jpg

Recreation Module.jpg

The recreation module is include only so you can see one opinion (set of deckplans) for multiple use showers and locker room.

Dave Chase
 
Travelling by Amtrak Superliner is not that much different than by spacecraft. Check out this 3D review of the sleeping accomodations on a single bi-level railcar - http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?c=AM_Accommodation_C&pagename=am%2FLayout&cid=1237748591390
 
Your system is much more detailed than mine.

I decided to keep the standard 4-ton stateroom (2-tons for stateroom, 2-tons for passages etc).

High Passage: 1 person per stateroom, private fresher.
Middle Passage: 2 persons per stateroom, private fresher
Steerage Passage: 4 persons per stateroom, shared fresher.

I use 1 fresher per 4 Steerage staterooms (16:1 ratio).

High Passage has a private (to that class) lounge as well as access to any other amenities the ship offers. All food and alcohol is complimentary.

Middle Passage has access to all amenities (except the HP lounge), food is included, but pay for alcohol.

Steerage Passage has pay-per-use access to most amenities. Basic food (heat-and-serve meals) is provided, alcohol is extra.

If a couple is travelling High Passage, two staterooms are connected (via an adjoining door) and one is configured as a sleeping space and the other as a lounge area.

All staterooms are automatically treated as Modular Space within their class, so couples and families can be accommodated with connecting staterooms.

I do not normally have computer terminals in the staterooms. The entire ship is a WiFi hotspot and since every device at TL8+ has wifi connections (like smartfones), they become redundant and start disappearing. There are ways to connect your device to the wall-screen in every room to use the larger viewer feature.
 
Thanks. There are still things I need to fix. But for smaller liners (100 - 200), I don't see much segregation amongst the passengers simply because it will be expensive to place multiple venues and such for each passenger class. As I see it, things like meals would be divided up by class (the 'low' people dont' need to be looking at some high passengers prime rib dinner while they get hamburger helper). But other things, such as rec rooms, theatres, gambling area, would be open to anyone. There might be a room or two (like a lounge) that would be limited by passenger class. I haven't really had the time to detail all that out though.

I'm thinking that a 'big' liner is going to carry 1,000 passengers and up. Basically I'm modelling it after our own ocean liners during the golden years of about 1900 - 1960. Before that the ships were rather slow and there wasn't a whole lot of luxury, and after that people took ships for pleasure not for travel. But between that time we saw a whole host of ships and amenities and such that would more closely resemble Traveller (at least I think so). The ships actually are the prime movers of people between planets.

But at least its developing the passenger concept a little more. And hopefully some new adventure seeds will come out of it.
 
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