Starship Troopers Evolution
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Whatisitgoodfor?
Mongoose
msprange said:
Wow. Now that is interesting. I know this isn't the time or the place, but when it is, I would be very, very interested in finding out more about the process and its potential.
The market just for pre-painted French Napoleonic battallions alone would be huge. Add one more generation of technology where you can log on and specify cuff and turnover colours to the machine as you already can with trim, colour and accessory options when buying a new car...ohh I'm getting giddy.
Anyway, back to the actual subject. Good luck with this. I will be a buyer if you can deliver, and I will buy your terrain too.
Col. Hammer
Mongoose
Hmmm... This is a lot to absorb.
My initial reaction was a bit on the negative side. But as I thought about it more, I'm now slightly optimistic...
Negative points:
- This hobby to me is about 80% working on my miniatures and 20% playing with them. With pre-assembled and pre-painted miniatures, I lose a lot of what this hobby is about (to me).
- Long time till new SST stuff will be available (I was looking forward to the forth, dammit!)
- I'm a bit apprehensive about the pre-painted stuff... and that wont change until I get to hold an example fig in my hands. Only then I will make my desicion about if this works or not. I don't trust the pics in the net. But I'm willing to give Mongoose the benefit of doubt.
- Some of the stuff I was waiting for won't come out now (Pathfinders WASPs, LAMI commanders) for a long time. Well, I guess I need to convert my own then.
Positive side:
- I play SST far more than I did play 40K (I could go for months without playing, just converting/painting stuff). The game is just that good. I hope you have just streamlined the rules and not made any big changes...
- If the pre-paint accepts new paint scheme on top of it, I'm happy. I still want to do my own paint schemes to fit the new stuff with my old stuff.
- I CAN wait 'till next year for the stuff to come out because I still have to assemble and paint my Marauder platoon, exosuit platoon, pathfinder platoon, LAMI platoon, CAP platoon, skinnies horde and bugs.... So I have a lot of stuff to do even if nothing new comes out very soon.
- This game is so good that I will adjust to the new way eventually. I know that.
- I'm really happy that you didn't make this game collectible. That would have killed it for me right away. (I would have kept playing the old rules though, but stopped buying anything new...)
- The game didn't take off well here in Finland. I hope the SST-Ev will take off better! (Because the need for paint stuff is a major obstacle for some people in this hobby. Not everybody like to paint their figs)
I guess I just have to wait and see. I will continue with SST hobby.
About battlefield evolution... Those tanks look great. I will look into the game when it comes out. I know the rules will be good at least because they are based on SST rules (and bugs vs. USMC is a game I want to try at least once!)
So, I'm cautiously optimistic right now and I'll propably end up as raving fanboy when I get into the new stuff.
My initial reaction was a bit on the negative side. But as I thought about it more, I'm now slightly optimistic...
Negative points:
- This hobby to me is about 80% working on my miniatures and 20% playing with them. With pre-assembled and pre-painted miniatures, I lose a lot of what this hobby is about (to me).
- Long time till new SST stuff will be available (I was looking forward to the forth, dammit!)
- I'm a bit apprehensive about the pre-painted stuff... and that wont change until I get to hold an example fig in my hands. Only then I will make my desicion about if this works or not. I don't trust the pics in the net. But I'm willing to give Mongoose the benefit of doubt.
- Some of the stuff I was waiting for won't come out now (Pathfinders WASPs, LAMI commanders) for a long time. Well, I guess I need to convert my own then.
Positive side:
- I play SST far more than I did play 40K (I could go for months without playing, just converting/painting stuff). The game is just that good. I hope you have just streamlined the rules and not made any big changes...
- If the pre-paint accepts new paint scheme on top of it, I'm happy. I still want to do my own paint schemes to fit the new stuff with my old stuff.
- I CAN wait 'till next year for the stuff to come out because I still have to assemble and paint my Marauder platoon, exosuit platoon, pathfinder platoon, LAMI platoon, CAP platoon, skinnies horde and bugs.... So I have a lot of stuff to do even if nothing new comes out very soon.
- This game is so good that I will adjust to the new way eventually. I know that.
- I'm really happy that you didn't make this game collectible. That would have killed it for me right away. (I would have kept playing the old rules though, but stopped buying anything new...)
- The game didn't take off well here in Finland. I hope the SST-Ev will take off better! (Because the need for paint stuff is a major obstacle for some people in this hobby. Not everybody like to paint their figs)
I guess I just have to wait and see. I will continue with SST hobby.
About battlefield evolution... Those tanks look great. I will look into the game when it comes out. I know the rules will be good at least because they are based on SST rules (and bugs vs. USMC is a game I want to try at least once!)
So, I'm cautiously optimistic right now and I'll propably end up as raving fanboy when I get into the new stuff.
Gauntlet-
Banded Mongoose
Its 2-14 am I got home at 1-30 am... after a day of answering phone calls helping people with insurance, and often as not hurting people without, thats my job for 4 more days... what do i do in the off time? I paint and construct some custom buggies...
I get home and I go down stairs and spray my buggies, then I just finished and i come here and read 8 pages....
and I think Im the first to say:
I am Fucking Pissed.
That being said, i will remain rational- its your company, its your money, you do what you want, ill do what I want - but here is why im pissed, and I think it will be more than me who feel this way, and probablly very few who post here notably
1. Prepainted- the quality seems very nice, im dubious but it is nifty and will get you a great big customer base hopefully.... of couse who will those customers be? the ones of all prepainted mini games- Younger and younger children, which naturally tend to require slightly simpler rules, which what I expect, over a serious ammount of time, it happens to every game system ive ever seen that has begun to market to simplification
2. Waiting months for new releases.... wow Way to Kill this Game.
YOu know why people are slowly drifting from GW? Because they keep changing the rule books, because they keep turning the tables, which is what your doing, now im sure you wont invalidate many models (perhaps none) but you did just slap everybody who bought rule books.
And you know why I think this is a bad call? and Why Im angry, because you dont keep your word... seriously many many of your releases are backed up, and now youve just dropped a ton? Are you releasing the 2 Sky Hook in a box deal? From what I gather, your not.
People dont like hearing one thing and seeing another... 2 years ago we saw the birht of SST and weve been hearing lots of great stuff about support, and weve been told of releases for the Forth, and Airships and plastic LAMI, and such.
Wow way to just say 'oops we were kidding' and while I hope it works out, and I hope SST survives, I think this will hurt it enormously... instead of working through things, you just gave up, maybe not on the game but certainly the players.
This ruins any chance of getting alot of new ppl into it, and nothing says die game die, like this sort of event, there will be a stigma because everyone knew the game existed before and pretty much got dropped for a rewrite. and in the mean time there will be Zero new players. Maybe thats how it is now, I hadnt thought so , but maybe...
It would be different if you were going to finish what you started and kept all the realeases we were expecting, and simply stopped there until later. But you didnt do that. Frankly why should I buy from you, as I see it you havnt kept your word, after months and months of defending this company, or glorifiying your virtues
I find myself mon-gooseless!
You say that your new SST will be awesomely painted and similarly priced (a slight to medium price jack wouldnt offend me I understand the costs and the needs) and that the rules will be better, perhaps not simply reduced for grand consumerism.... but why should I believe you now? There isnt such a thing as the Forth for any forseeable future, there isnt any air units.... as far as we know and can trust.... Ever. Because you dropped this SST why should we assume you wont drop this evolution idea?
You make nice models, you have a brilliant game system given in part to you by one of the industrie's best designers, who notbaly Does not Work for You. The beginning and best models were also sculpted by a great sculptor Bob Naismath no?... does he still sculpt for you? God I hope not because he must be on his death bed if hes been working on those skinnies. No of course not, the quality has been ever diminishing.... now apparently its because of the big mean factory owners who have bad molds... or maybe its because you picked a cheap ass factory and said screw the player...
no thats too harsh, I dont honestly think that do I? Hmmm Dunno anymore because I cant trust a mongoose game to stay in development for longer than 2 years... wow
in my opinion youve taken albert einstein when he was a todler and shoved him onto the street... and he somehow builds an A Bomb for hitler... dont ask me how, but you did.
Im not trying to be truly offensive, im hoping for some laughs along the way, but really... this kicks me in the teeth.
Im sure ill be able to buy everything THATS OUT, at a an affordably price, because when stores hear this i imagine theyll drop it ASAP. Ill still buy what I like, I will keep playing and encouraging people to play with me and my stuff... but I cant in good conscience tell anyone to Start Buying this game anymore. Not when I cant say that the game will be around.
Ill probablly pick up the new game when it comes out, maybe have all my worries laughed out, im sure plenty of people disagree with the above, thats fine, go ahead, I hope im wrong.
AS a final thought for those of you who seem overly optimistic about this
Assurances are plentiful in the absence of evidence,
and fool me once... well apparently shame on me.
I get home and I go down stairs and spray my buggies, then I just finished and i come here and read 8 pages....
and I think Im the first to say:
I am Fucking Pissed.
That being said, i will remain rational- its your company, its your money, you do what you want, ill do what I want - but here is why im pissed, and I think it will be more than me who feel this way, and probablly very few who post here notably
1. Prepainted- the quality seems very nice, im dubious but it is nifty and will get you a great big customer base hopefully.... of couse who will those customers be? the ones of all prepainted mini games- Younger and younger children, which naturally tend to require slightly simpler rules, which what I expect, over a serious ammount of time, it happens to every game system ive ever seen that has begun to market to simplification
2. Waiting months for new releases.... wow Way to Kill this Game.
YOu know why people are slowly drifting from GW? Because they keep changing the rule books, because they keep turning the tables, which is what your doing, now im sure you wont invalidate many models (perhaps none) but you did just slap everybody who bought rule books.
And you know why I think this is a bad call? and Why Im angry, because you dont keep your word... seriously many many of your releases are backed up, and now youve just dropped a ton? Are you releasing the 2 Sky Hook in a box deal? From what I gather, your not.
People dont like hearing one thing and seeing another... 2 years ago we saw the birht of SST and weve been hearing lots of great stuff about support, and weve been told of releases for the Forth, and Airships and plastic LAMI, and such.
Wow way to just say 'oops we were kidding' and while I hope it works out, and I hope SST survives, I think this will hurt it enormously... instead of working through things, you just gave up, maybe not on the game but certainly the players.
This ruins any chance of getting alot of new ppl into it, and nothing says die game die, like this sort of event, there will be a stigma because everyone knew the game existed before and pretty much got dropped for a rewrite. and in the mean time there will be Zero new players. Maybe thats how it is now, I hadnt thought so , but maybe...
It would be different if you were going to finish what you started and kept all the realeases we were expecting, and simply stopped there until later. But you didnt do that. Frankly why should I buy from you, as I see it you havnt kept your word, after months and months of defending this company, or glorifiying your virtues
I find myself mon-gooseless!
You say that your new SST will be awesomely painted and similarly priced (a slight to medium price jack wouldnt offend me I understand the costs and the needs) and that the rules will be better, perhaps not simply reduced for grand consumerism.... but why should I believe you now? There isnt such a thing as the Forth for any forseeable future, there isnt any air units.... as far as we know and can trust.... Ever. Because you dropped this SST why should we assume you wont drop this evolution idea?
You make nice models, you have a brilliant game system given in part to you by one of the industrie's best designers, who notbaly Does not Work for You. The beginning and best models were also sculpted by a great sculptor Bob Naismath no?... does he still sculpt for you? God I hope not because he must be on his death bed if hes been working on those skinnies. No of course not, the quality has been ever diminishing.... now apparently its because of the big mean factory owners who have bad molds... or maybe its because you picked a cheap ass factory and said screw the player...
no thats too harsh, I dont honestly think that do I? Hmmm Dunno anymore because I cant trust a mongoose game to stay in development for longer than 2 years... wow
in my opinion youve taken albert einstein when he was a todler and shoved him onto the street... and he somehow builds an A Bomb for hitler... dont ask me how, but you did.
Im not trying to be truly offensive, im hoping for some laughs along the way, but really... this kicks me in the teeth.
Im sure ill be able to buy everything THATS OUT, at a an affordably price, because when stores hear this i imagine theyll drop it ASAP. Ill still buy what I like, I will keep playing and encouraging people to play with me and my stuff... but I cant in good conscience tell anyone to Start Buying this game anymore. Not when I cant say that the game will be around.
Ill probablly pick up the new game when it comes out, maybe have all my worries laughed out, im sure plenty of people disagree with the above, thats fine, go ahead, I hope im wrong.
AS a final thought for those of you who seem overly optimistic about this
Assurances are plentiful in the absence of evidence,
and fool me once... well apparently shame on me.
Lane Shutt
Mongoose
msprange said:
Will playtest for minis
MattRendar
Mongoose
ive been a huge sst fan from the beiging . ive known about the big surprise for a while . mixed feelings . im old school painter and builder . the world seen the collectable painted figs . not to sucessful . but figs packaged in squads pre painted . it could be a revolution . because ill still cut em up and convert my own guys .next year well see what happens . im a little sad about the forth and the drop ships not going to be under my christmas tree but ill live . well heres to next year . i always get nervous before a drop .
Alright, here is my 2-cents worth :wink: . I do not see anything negative about prepainted figures... at all... period. The ones of us with "skillz" can use it as a base coat under the primer coat :shock: , but I'll never do that even though I "ain't bad" at painting. Like Matthew mentioned, one can place additional touch-ups on the miniatures to make them different. Another option (hi Matthew :wink: ) might be to have decal sheets with various choices of unit markings to separate a player's units from others on the table. I rather think a few might add some small detail to the breastplates of the troopers like a unit insignia (or even using a rub-on transfer :idea: :?: ). This is where Scipio's talents could be tapped, but (with respect) he has to walk his own chosen path as we all do.
My second point is the absolute :shock: shock of reading between the lines of Matthew's disclosures-
I have then deduced the following: Matthew has obviously taken Adrian to the far-east where he was then cloned into an army of like-skilled artists painting away on our future collections, and the competition won't have a chance...
Creepy, man... just creepy :lol:
My second point is the absolute :shock: shock of reading between the lines of Matthew's disclosures-
I have then deduced the following: Matthew has obviously taken Adrian to the far-east where he was then cloned into an army of like-skilled artists painting away on our future collections, and the competition won't have a chance...
Creepy, man... just creepy :lol:
Gauntlet- said:
I understand your feelings, and the damn clock can't tick fast enough for me to see how this major decision by MGP will turn out, but after me only guessing as to what Mongoose knows about sales and from players' input, here are just maybe a few guesses: Mini sales might have been stagnating at stores due to model complexity and the mix of part metal / part plastic minis and more than a few complaints about assembly. I haven't had problems personally, but I am experienced in my years at modding/making figures for my games and am humbly adept at stumbling through a paint job. As long as the quality is as "advertised" earlier by Matthew, I do see this gaming product getting a boost in sales for Mongoose and a boost in players for us. I've seen too many stories here that the backbone of the hobby, the local "FLGS" stores, had stock sitting for too long. Time will tell if this will work, and I'll bet that we'll all raise a cheer if it does. There is even a chance for an ego boost to all of the "old warriors" of the "1st edition of miniatures" cadre that when you show up at a gaming con or tournament with your SST "specials/custom" models, the prepainted-only owners will ask you how you did your paint jobs. In other words, those owners of prepainted minis might take a spiritual leap of faith and actually pick up a wet brush (blasphemy!). Listen, seriously though. If this brings in a bunch of new blood to help out the business side of MGP and expand the game's usage, us old dogs can mentor active players and introduce them to custom modding and painting. I would like to see at least 1 or 2 of the plastic dropship kits released in the meantime, if that is they are close to production. If these eventual pre-painted kits were to be released as plastic "model kits", I for one would like to see them out before next year.
LaranosTZ
Mongoose
I think BuShips brings up an important note that a lot of our painter friends are missing. In the original post, and several times Ms has stated that the plastic is wargaming quality plastic. I would guess this means that it is at least the same quality as the current range of SST plastics, if not better. He has also stated that it will not be drowning in the finish coat, like many of the collectable games out there (Star Wars for example.)
This means that the models should be re-basable and hold new paint just as well as any other plastic model. So if you want to completely customize your paint job, you should certainly be able to exercise that option. Admittedly, not having multi-piece model does somewhat limit your customizing options, but when has a few limited pose pieces ever really prevented a dedicated modder from doing whatever they want with a model?
Personally, I can see both positions of this argument, but being one of those 'casual' players out there I am enthusiastic of having a model I can use right out of the box, then touch up afterwards.
If the rules are streamlined as well? Even better, there always were some depressingly common rules issues that seemed to pop up in this game.
This means that the models should be re-basable and hold new paint just as well as any other plastic model. So if you want to completely customize your paint job, you should certainly be able to exercise that option. Admittedly, not having multi-piece model does somewhat limit your customizing options, but when has a few limited pose pieces ever really prevented a dedicated modder from doing whatever they want with a model?
Personally, I can see both positions of this argument, but being one of those 'casual' players out there I am enthusiastic of having a model I can use right out of the box, then touch up afterwards.
If the rules are streamlined as well? Even better, there always were some depressingly common rules issues that seemed to pop up in this game.
SickBunny
Mongoose
First of all, thanks Matt, for staying here and answering the questions of us panicking/rejoicing/angry mobs, it shows real dedication to this...
Secondly, onn the busride to work a few more questions did pop to mind...
1) Will there be a new Starter box set?
2) Will the complicated models remain multipart? As in will Arachnids now be single-piece and if not, how will the construction differ as I know that more simplified (completely negated?) construction is both a grand boon (People who cried blood when building the brain or tanker) and a bit of a loss (No screaming Arachnids anymore? Variety of pose etc.)
3) Do you still want me to write those Collateral Damage rules for detonable terrain? :lol:
Secondly, onn the busride to work a few more questions did pop to mind...
1) Will there be a new Starter box set?
2) Will the complicated models remain multipart? As in will Arachnids now be single-piece and if not, how will the construction differ as I know that more simplified (completely negated?) construction is both a grand boon (People who cried blood when building the brain or tanker) and a bit of a loss (No screaming Arachnids anymore? Variety of pose etc.)
3) Do you still want me to write those Collateral Damage rules for detonable terrain? :lol:
SickBunny said:
No - everything you need will be in each unit box set. Truly. This makes the buy-in point potentially as low as $24.95 (for the tanks in BF Evo, we are projecting). However, we may well have Platoon and Army box sets.
SickBunny said:
Only if they do not fit in the boxes (helicopters with wide rotors for BF Evo spring to mind here). However, some models will have stiff but moveable joints - the Exosuits and Warrior Bugs, for example, allowing you to have multiple poses.
SickBunny said:
Sounds like a winner for an S&P article
LaranosTZ said:
How can I disagree? :wink: The thing that I see as a non-issue is that Matthew has said the original minis will still be offered and will still work with the game, so if say someone wanted to mod some interesting positions out of the plastic CAP troopers (yes, with all of those individual pieces), they still could. A good example (if I do say so humbly) is to look in a future S&P Wargamer for some seated troopers and a gun and helmet rack that used small parts special ordered from MGP.
Lorcan Nagle
Mongoose
If I can make one suggestion - one thing that keeps people in a game is a strong, evolving background. Look at BattleTech and Warmachine/Hordes for great examples. Each new release progresses the story of the universe, and gives players a good reason to pick up books they might have otherwise skipped. Have campaigns that players can run in their LGS that effect the progress of the game storyline and so on.
Also, allowing special orders of the new minis unpainted would be the rock.
Also, allowing special orders of the new minis unpainted would be the rock.
msprange said:
Well, I like the notion of the models being somewhat posable and take that as a plus. I just never want to see bidding websites calling the new models "the new Starship Troopers action figures" :wink: . From the description you gave of the composition and finish, Matthew, it looks like we are safe on this matter.
5.56 Surgeon
Mongoose
First, my statement.
Screw you. I love building and painting models, but have lousy fine motor skills and do it at snails pace. But I enjoy it. The game rocks, no doubt about that, but I can already see this going the way of Hero-Clicks and other mini games. When HCs came out, a lot of my friends including myself played the other adults, we had tournaments at the LSG and whatnot, and the kid factor killed it for us.
Now my questions.
You said the Grizzlies would still come in sets of 4 at the same price. Ok. But LAMI are coming in sets of 8-10, so are we going to get a price cut on those? And will there be enough in the set that I can buy a few and make a platoon, or will it be the 20 in box, but you need 25 for the platoon GW crap you pulled with the metals?
Are we talking dense, hard plastics that are sturdy and unbending, or Star Wars minis where they come prebent? Because if its SW quality, I'm done.
Oh, and I almost forgot, thanks for the extra year plus on some of the Skinnie units, guess my 3000 point Skinnie army isn't going to happen.
:x :x :x :x
Screw you. I love building and painting models, but have lousy fine motor skills and do it at snails pace. But I enjoy it. The game rocks, no doubt about that, but I can already see this going the way of Hero-Clicks and other mini games. When HCs came out, a lot of my friends including myself played the other adults, we had tournaments at the LSG and whatnot, and the kid factor killed it for us.
Now my questions.
You said the Grizzlies would still come in sets of 4 at the same price. Ok. But LAMI are coming in sets of 8-10, so are we going to get a price cut on those? And will there be enough in the set that I can buy a few and make a platoon, or will it be the 20 in box, but you need 25 for the platoon GW crap you pulled with the metals?
Are we talking dense, hard plastics that are sturdy and unbending, or Star Wars minis where they come prebent? Because if its SW quality, I'm done.
Oh, and I almost forgot, thanks for the extra year plus on some of the Skinnie units, guess my 3000 point Skinnie army isn't going to happen.
:x :x :x :x
Some points of confusion - I took up SST only a month or so ago, and have already assembled an intact platoon of LAMI, Pathfinders, CAP and am working on my Bug army, I've also gotten a few friends into the game.
Given that the models are remaining essentially the same (I will take to heart the fact that hopper bugs for example are being redone and postpone purchase there) is it really necessary to recommend that noone buys into the hobby from now until next year? From your sample pics, the models look identical to what are out now (LAMI and Grizzlies) I for one wont stop buying what you already have on the basis that I can continue using it under the new rules, the same way that I wont throw my Eldar army out the box in 40k. I will simply keep getting what you already have, play with the current rules, and upgrade to the new rulebook next year.
I don't see what the big problem everyone has is, or am I missing the point? Pre-painted minis I have to admit I am not too sold on, but so long as re-painting is possible then I'm fine there. All-plastics are cool, and it's not as if there aren't bits you're maintaining support for if conversions are desired.
Given that the models are remaining essentially the same (I will take to heart the fact that hopper bugs for example are being redone and postpone purchase there) is it really necessary to recommend that noone buys into the hobby from now until next year? From your sample pics, the models look identical to what are out now (LAMI and Grizzlies) I for one wont stop buying what you already have on the basis that I can continue using it under the new rules, the same way that I wont throw my Eldar army out the box in 40k. I will simply keep getting what you already have, play with the current rules, and upgrade to the new rulebook next year.
I don't see what the big problem everyone has is, or am I missing the point? Pre-painted minis I have to admit I am not too sold on, but so long as re-painting is possible then I'm fine there. All-plastics are cool, and it's not as if there aren't bits you're maintaining support for if conversions are desired.
The only thing that niggles me is the boxed set releases and the breakdown of the rulebooks - if 'all we need' is in each boxed set, is each boxed set going to come with a truncated army list, or a unit card specifying stats, or will there still be an overarching army book with all the units under one roof?
I've encountered boxed set issues already with LAMI and even the sprue boxes. Assuming you're releasing one-part plastics, how are we going to go about customising weapon loadouts in our squads or on our models? (marauders, exos spring to mind) Will weapons be exchangeable, will bits orders be available (i.e. ordering LAMI rockets, Fednet reporters etc.)
Edit - Apologies for split post, work firewall doesnt like large file uploads.
I've encountered boxed set issues already with LAMI and even the sprue boxes. Assuming you're releasing one-part plastics, how are we going to go about customising weapon loadouts in our squads or on our models? (marauders, exos spring to mind) Will weapons be exchangeable, will bits orders be available (i.e. ordering LAMI rockets, Fednet reporters etc.)
Edit - Apologies for split post, work firewall doesnt like large file uploads.
Lorcan Nagle said:
Indeed. Within 3 months of release, BF Evo will have (working title) Kreplakistan, a fictional future conflict involving all the super powers as an Internet based worldwide campaign. . .
5.56 Surgeon said:
Umm, eh?
You could make a platoon out of a single box set - how big a platoon depended on how many boxes you wanted.
Also, I believe it is understood that the 20 in a box is a special deal that may not be continued in the future.
However, I can say this - every unit in SST Evo will be playable straight from the box.
5.56 Surgeon said:
As I said in my first post, hard plastics, no bendy stuff here!
5.56 Surgeon said:
Well, what would you have preferred? Some okay stuff right now, or some blinding awesome stuff after a brief wait?
