Starship Operator's Manual - Others for CT?

[rinku]

I was more annoyed at TNE for stepping away from the old 2D6 based mechanics. The technical changes were far less of an issue for me, since it was a genuine attempt to relate things to real science and technology, and the rationale behind it all was well discussed.

The old tech such as thruster plates and alternative antigravity systems were there in FF&S. And to honest, it was no great deal to just use Classic or Mega starships and systems if you really hated the TNE ones. It's not as if the personal scale overlaps with space combat, and stuff like jump fuel usage wasn't changed.

 

[Longboat]

I agree. I actually started re-writing the important parts of the task system using the MT task system and keeping things 2D6. It was a huge project, and I got about 3/4 done before I decided it just wasn't worth it.

That combat system in TNE I never mastered. It was so much more technical than just rolling 2D for 8+. I didn't want the extra crunch. Heck, IIRC, for autofire, you threw a d20 for every bullet in a burst. If it was a 5 bullet burst, you threw 5 d20's and check to see how many hit?

Was MWM part of the design team on TNE? I didn't think that he was--thought he'd left GDW by then. That technical system in TNE sure felt like his designs, though. He seemed to get more and more crunchy with his designs as the years went by. Look at 5E, for an example.

I do know that GDW took Twilight 2000's system and attempted to make it GDW's House System for all of their games. I think that they were thinking of a 2300 third edition using that system, but I may be recalling that incorrectly.

 

[rinku]

Yes; according to wiki Marc left GDW in 1991. TNE was 1993, and Frank Chadwick and Dave Nilson are the credited authors. Although as usual GDW operated as a collective and everyone likely provided input and playtesting.

I think you're right that a new edition of 2300 might have been at some stage of development. It would be surprising if it was not, really.

 

[actionman]

Who needs contragrav when you can just lift yourself up by the back of your trousers...

Deep in the bowels of Imperial warships, the toast butterers are hard at work preparing hot fresh buttery toast to keep the cat and toast drives spinning.

 

[actionman]

When someone says "show me the rule", often as not I will point them at my boxed set of the Feynman Lectures. Their response at that point informs me of whether I actually need them in my life.

Now there's no excuse.

https://www.aps.org/apsnews/2014/10/feynman-lectures-now-freely-available-online

 

[Condottiere]

Forty Kay variant.

Dead Saints spinning n their coffins, by whispering heresies.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Traverller begat MegaTraveller, and there was much wailing.

Twiliight 2000 used a % system, and there was much wailing.

The DGP task system was adapted to d10 to make Traveller 2300, which was not Traveller at all. And there was much wailing.

The d10 sysem was fiddled with to begat Cadillacs and Dinosaurs, Twilight 2000 2nd, Dark Conspiracy, the wailing went silent, for there were no more tears to shed.

The d10 system was modified to the d20 system, it was added in supplements to DC, it was used for Twilight 2000 2.2 ed, and lo it was proclaimed the holy house system would henceforth power all games.

TNE emerged from the chaos, and the wailing was such that only Vargr and Aslan could hear it. The Hivers chuckled, in the manner Hivers chuckle.

A d20 T2300AD was begat, but lo the apocalypse came and it passed beyond this universe before it saw the light.

 

[boggo2300]

A d20 T2300AD was begat, but lo the apocalypse came and it passed beyond this universe before it saw the light.

Good, because d20 games in general are an abomination worthy of a WH40K crusade!

 

[Sigtrygg]

The mechanics are not that bad, they have a certain...

sorry couldn't keep it up. The GDW d20 house system was... not the best.

Oddly the d10 house system being derived from the DGP task system is almost backwards compatible.

The basic disconnect with both the d10 and the d20 house systems for me is that they were roll low rather than roll high.

There is something about rolling 2d6 and trying to get big numbers that just feels right...

That said the advantage of a roll low system is that you can set your target number as a skill or characteristic value or combination. Roll high systems usually involve target numbers.

 

[Sigtrygg]

T2300
characteristics 1-20 (/4 round down for task DM), skills 0-5, target number 7+/11+/15+/19+ (on a d10 read as 0-9, 0 is automatic fail),

DC et al
characteristics 1-10, skills 0-10, easy task roll less than designated char or skill x2, average task roll less than designated char or skill, difficult task roll less than designated char or skill x1/2. d10 is read as 1-10

 

[Longboat]

Good, because d20 games in general are an abomination worthy of a WH40K crusade!

I used to think that. Then, I played a game using 3E mechanics (not D&D) and I realized that it really is a well designed system.

 

[Bense]

There is an official d20 version of Traveller, of course...

 

[WHULorigan]

Deep in the bowels of Imperial warships, the toast butterers are hard at work preparing hot fresh buttery toast to keep the cat and toast drives spinning.

So Traveller was initially likened to a situation similar to "Age of Sail" ; now we have moved on to "Galley Slaves" . . .

 

[Condottiere]

 

[boggo2300]

I used to think that. Then, I played a game using 3E mechanics (not D&D) and I realized that it really is a well designed system.

I've played multipe D20 games as well as 3e 3.5e and Pathfinder 1, which is how I formed this opinion

 

[Sigtrygg]

GDW house system d20 is not based on the D&D D20 games...

That said if T20 had been updated to d20Modern/Future it may have had a bigger impact.

Rumour has it that the Expanse started out as the d20 M/F campaign of the author(s)

 

[Condottiere]

And Firefly, somewhat similarly.

 

[Longboat]

I've played multipe D20 games as well as 3e 3.5e and Pathfinder 1, which is how I formed this opinion

Different tastes, I guess. I can't stand games like FFG Star Wars and the 2d20 system from Modiphius where meta currency is used, yet others love those games. It happens.

I like d20 3E/3.5E because its a very simple system (d20 + mods for target or better) dressed up to look more complicated. You've got feats and skills to allow a player to differentiate his character and customize it for a specific purpose. You can have two characters with the exact same attributes, the exact same character class, and the exact same level, and those characters could be complete different from Feat and Skill choice.

Skills have a natural ability component and a learned ability or expertise component.

I think it's a brilliant design.

 

[rinku]

Man, this topic really has drifted.

For my Cr0.02, d20 is what it is, it's okay. But 2d6 vs target with mods is what I learned in 1980 and it still does the job just fine, swingy bell curve and all.

(Don't mind a bit of opposed d20 though. Pendragon was always a favourite.)

 

[actionman]

Good, because d20 games in general are an abomination worthy of a WH40K crusade!

The Emperor Protects... from d20.