Stalingrad

[mbtanker]

What happened to this game idea? Did anyone at Mongoose consider going 20mm with it? This would allow better scale for the table and also allow players to utilize the great 1/72 pre-painted WW2 vehicles done by Dragon. 20mm would also allow for more terrain in a set simply because it is smaller than 28mm not to mention there are loads of 20mm items out there. If Mongoose could get pre-painted figs then wargamers could use the figs with other rulesets as well, which might increase sales.

I really wish they had done Battlefield Evolution in 20mm.

 

[Ben2]

The problem is that if they had they would have had to compete in minis terms with half a dozen other manufacturers for wargames, Revell, Trumpeter and other companies and would have had a situation where a minority of the game players bought the lines Mongoose brought out to support it.
By going with 28mm scale Mongoose targets the GW audience, used to that scale, and the people used to dealing with pre-paints (also in that scale for the most part). They make up a big slice of the market pie.
While I can see the attraction of 20mm, and the Stalingrad lists I am looking at will most likely be tested in 20mm (and even then I for some reason have written Italian and British 8th army lists first) it is a scale swamped with competition, some good, some bad, some dirt cheap, that will give Mongoose big problems if they launch a range into that crowded market.
Look at the problems Urban Mammoth had with Operation Overlord before they parted company. UM were trying to release a range into a very crowded market (and lots of the OO players had already bought their armies or where using Italeri plastics) and so when UM suffered their copyright violation setback the prospective range curled up and died.

I think Stalingrad will happen, as the BF:Evo rules set is that good. If it definitely 100% isn't, I will release the lists I have been messing about with to the public.

 

[xeoran]

Yeah, 28mm is NOT the way to go. If they did I'd just buy from the cheaper historical manufactorers (Elheim or Italeri). 28mm (hire Tom Meir! Hire him!) seems best.

 

[mbtanker]

Well if the did pre-painted they'd be only ones with pre-painted 20mm. I just don't think 28mm works for WW2.

 

[Mr Evil]

I JUST DONT THINK 28MM WORKS FOR ANYTHING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no honestly it makes games tables efectivly smaller, i love the mobility of FOW its not the game mechanics so much but the scale of thre minis that makes it happen.

 

[xeoran]

Well if the did pre-painted they'd be only ones with pre-painted 20mm. I just don't think 28mm works for WW2.

But in general 20mm sell only OK. And I think FoV do pre painted 20mm.

28mm is best for having detailed sculpts that are still small enough for a decent sized game.

 

[mthomason]

I really wish they had done Battlefield Evolution in 20mm.

I'm sure it was considered. However:

The "mass-market" (or as close as you can get in this hobby) wargaming crowd are 28mm. 28mm is a guaranteed seller, and when you're pumping a ton of cash into new technologies you don't want to stray too far from what you know is going to sell.

Most existing Mongoose customers are 28mm gamers (even if they play other scales as well). By going to anything else, you'll get far more complaints asking why it wasn't 28mm.

My own preferred scale is 6mm

As for Stalingrad - to the best of my knowledge, it's one of many ideas that are floating around waiting for a chance to be developed. You can only push out so many new games in a year before you flood your own market and find your own games are competing with each other for sales, so it makes sense not to release it until BF Evo and SST Evo are out of the way. Add in Stalingrad and Conan (it'd be nice to see all four using the same rules base) and you've pretty much got all four major corners of the wargaming market covered, so my money would be on seeing them late 2007/early 2008.

 

[weasel_fierce]

God plays in 15mm

 

[Darkghost]

I think they should at least release rule books. There are plenty of 28mm figures, but not very many good 28mm rulesets. If they don't do it at 28mm, they should go 15mm. Yes its smaller but the terrain is widely available, and the mini's are widely available. I've actually never heard of anything in 20mm, AFAIK the normal scales are 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 25mm, and 28mm. 15's are big enough to be based and played as individual models, and though not as detailed as some 28mm, theres a suprising amount of detail on them. I wish Flames of War was 10mm, I just think the smaller mini's look good, but anything smaller than 15mm is too small to base individually.

 

[weasel_fierce]

I play skirmish games in 15mm, and it works great. And yeah, there's a tremendous variety of stuff available for every imaginable period.

While they would propably want to sell their own mini's, if its a scale people have, it means that people will buy their books and start playing, rather than not buying, because theyare waiting for the say, Romanians, to be released.

 

[Mr Evil]

I think they should at least release rule books. There are plenty of 28mm figures, but not very many good 28mm rulesets. If they don't do it at 28mm, they should go 15mm. Yes its smaller but the terrain is widely available, and the mini's are widely available. I've actually never heard of anything in 20mm, AFAIK the normal scales are 6mm, 10mm, 15mm, 25mm, and 28mm. 15's are big enough to be based and played as individual models, and though not as detailed as some 28mm, theres a suprising amount of detail on them. I wish Flames of War was 10mm, I just think the smaller mini's look good, but anything smaller than 15mm is too small to base individually.

20mm is heavly used for modern and WW2 wargames and eval ACW, reason being that you can use train set buildings and 1/72 scale lits, and cars for terrain.

i saw a 20mm game in action for WW2 and it looked awsome all the troopers were based on one penny size bases and it just looked stunning on the eye.

im going to build a small soviet garison in 20mm soon

 

[Darkghost]

I'll have to look into that. I wonder what rules modifications they would make for Stalingrad... I guess I'll just wait and get BF:Evo and then stat out WWII. I've seen some 28mm WWII armies, and though I have a tendancy to like the smaller scales, 28mm WWII looks beautiful (when painted correctly and historically). I don't know about this whole pre-paint thing. Sure it will help bring people into the hobby, but for me 2/3'rds of my fun has been the painting/modeling and 1/3 being the gaming.

 

[xeoran]

Oh, the other trouble with 20mm WW2 is that Elheim make the best and Operation Overlord is out there. Those two are SERIOUS competition. Instead I'd suggest buying Operation Overlord (if you can), teaming it with Elheim to do the minis with Mongoose providing packaging, distribution and graphic design/art.