SST:Evo&marauder ape

[cOwgummi]

Well it IS pretty realistical to destroy something with a lucky shot though. But frustrating for a gamer nonetheless.
I remember argueing with a good friend of mine over such things everytime we play any kind of WW2 simulation against each other.

But anyway, the more I hear about SST evo, the less i like it.

 

[Turtle]

All of you guys are assuming that you have actually seen all the rules in the game battlefield evolution game, which you haven't, let alone any rules or stats for the SST evo game.

So frankly I find it hard to form such an opinion when we really haven't heard much about it.

Even now, Matt has been posting little tidbits about rules found in the full BFE rulebook that adds a new layer of tactical depth. Just now we were discussing weapon ranges and how they seemed too limiting to some, then Matt jumps in saying there's a way to shoot beyond a weapon's max range. Since this sounds like it'll give some units a very long shooting range, it's obvious there'll be downsides to doing so. In a way, this means that the true BFE weapons max ranges are much longer than we'd thought, and that the ranges shown merely represent quickly aimed shots or bursts at the enemy.

Likewise, someone here mentioned that they wished for rules for attacking the top armor of vehicles, and lo and behold it turns out there's a rull rule for units attacking all sorts of things from a higher vantage point.

Since they seem to be on the ball here, don't you think they'd have thought of a way to balance out the MI cap troopers having 5+ target and 7+ save? And for that matter, they could certainly balance out the bugs, skinnies, and Forth considering they're still playtesting and adjusting the stats for them.

It may be that the cap troopers are being given a target of 4 now, but with a higher armor save. Or perhaps now that the MI are capable of being suppressed simply shooting and missing an enemy is enough to get an effect. Or, with good rolls you can bypass the front guys touching cover and nail the troops behind that only get obscurement, or how bugs can tunnel under MI and get into close combat, or how skinnies can ambush, or how the armored Forth Walkers can unleash so much firepower that cov er doesn't matter, or how with MI vs. MI they'll be jumping around the board trying to flank each other's positions (one of the strengths of the MI).

See, there's still way too many variables about SST to form much of an opinion beyond how the base evolution rules determine the flow of the game. And from my playtests I'm very much liking the flow. It also helps that I still have two very large SST armies, but up until recently I was planning to sell the whole lot, then I saw what good changes they made to the SST rules in BFE and that got me excited again for SST.

 

[tneva82]

they stay in one place if they want to hug cover.

Or they could move toward you while staying in cover...Bugs don't need to be 100% time impervious to smash your line. 100% impervious until they are in charge range and swoosh! They are in your lines and you might get 1 reaction shot against them. Very possible in some of the boards I have played to have that much cover. 1 reaction shot is not going to drive off them even for a while...

so if they stay in cover, you can(in case of bugs) stop worrying about them,

Not when they creep forward toward your troops ready to unleash nasty charge that is going to sweep your trooppers...

or supress them with those moritas-according to the BFE rules sheet all dice that don't roll 1 do count for the purpose of supression!

8 trooppers=16 dices. You need to roll pretty well to NOT roll 2 1's. I expect to see 15 strong warrior broods in the BF:Evo. Those aren't exactly easy to suppress...

 

[tneva82]

It may be that the cap troopers are being given a target of 4 now

Uuuh they HAVE target 4+...

or how bugs can tunnel under MI and get into close combat

Which isn't going to make it easier. Not only MI has to deal with morita-immune warriors they have tunneling warriors approaching as well :wink:

I'm just worried about the impact morita-impervious arachnid warriors will have for the game balance. Above post said that cover means staying in place...That's not automaticly so in a board where is decent amount of terrain...Warriors with their 10" move in 1 turn could easily jump from cover to cover or even just scuttle their way inside the cover...

 

[Turtle]

One thing your forgetting is that MI can still flank bugs in cover with their jump ability. That was one of the bug strengths of jump capable troops, but it wasn't used as much in SSTv1, at least in my games. Instead players got into a mentality where the jump was only used to escape approaching bugs instead of flanking.

In fact it should be easier now to get flank shots with the new dice allocation rules.

The arachnids have to cross whatever terrain the MI want to have the bugs cross since the MI are so much more mobile.

Warrior bugs are big, it's likely that only the front few will get the full cover bonus, the ones behind the front will only get the obscurement bonus of +1 to their target. So those front few absorb a few dice and the rest hit home. And maybe because they're so big they don't get a full cover bonus.

MI will likely be shooting with 2d6 again, that's a lot of gunfire, should be enough to get past those first few bugs in cover and have enough high rolls left to hit the bugs behind. And the new rules for explosive weapons means you're rolling d10s into that firezone, no more lethal zone conversions.

You're also assuming the warrior bugs, and every unit's stats won't be changed in some way. And even if the base stats don't change, there could very well be other special rules the negate cover. For example, those warrior bugs are huge, they may have lowered the target to 4+ and raised the armor in response to how the new cover rules work. Or, perhaps the MI will get a land warrior-like system that allows them to negate cover.

Also there's word that flinching will be back in a way for SST. Most likely Warrior bugs will be subject to flinching to make up for how they're immune to suppression. This could knock the front warriors in cover back away from the cover so that another shooting action can kill them.

Oh and Matt has mentioned there's a way to shoot beyond your weapon's max range in BFE, it's likely the ability will carry over to SST so that means a lot more firepower at long range for the MI, even though there'll be a drawback to it.

So, right now it's best to assume nothing for SSTE beyond each unit having a similar role to its last role in SSTv1. We don't know all the advanced rules available in the evolution rulesset, we've only gotten a small teaser for the BFE advanced rules, let alone any rules at all for SSTE.

Only playtests know how SST is turning out, but I like what I see from BFE so there's no reason for me to assume that SST won't be as well thought out.

 

[tneva82]

One thing your forgetting is that MI can still flank bugs in cover with their jump ability.

Good if cover is from one direction...But what if said cover is say...Forrest? Building? Or said flank happens to be guarded by another swarm of terrain covered bugs so flanking will leave you open to charge

BTW jumping is heavily used in my games.

You're also assuming the warrior bugs, and every unit's stats won't be changed in some way.

I'm assuming such a basic thing as warriors being tougher than cap trooppers won't change. If their target gets down then by all right cap trooppers would be target 3+...Not exactly best of things for MI either...Bugs would only be failing on 1 to hit them...

For example, those warrior bugs are huge, they may have lowered the target to 4+

They are huge but they are tough. They are SUPPOSED to be tough and if they are weak then...

Only playtests know how SST is turning out, but I like what I see from BFE so there's no reason for me to assume that SST won't be as well thought out.

And I'm wondering how they accomplished that :wink:

 

[mutantpoo]

Will there be shotguns available for any of the factions? Please play testers say yes , but I probably could get away with something similiar to bug shot rounds...

I love city boards too, with some cover, wrecked homes, stores, cars, and maybe a school or two :twisted: .

Hear, Hear ! Lets get those boom sticks back under the morita rifles for the light MI !!!!!!!!!