Greg Smith
Mongoose
Iron Domokun said:
I wondered that too.
In that case, I have been black-balling Warhammer 40k. :twisted: Doesn't seem to have had much effect on GW...
Squadron Boxes
- Thread starter Apep
- Start date
I wondered that too.
In that case, I have been black-balling Warhammer 40k. :twisted: Doesn't seem to have had much effect on GW...
Black-balling - (has a few different origins) - the most common usage in the UK comes from a voting tradition in some clubs where new members are voted on by use of black / white balls - if you got even get one black ball - you don't get membership (normally followed by the phrase – I didn’t want to play there anyway)
However nowadays there is a number of different interpretations of the phrase - It can now mean anything from bad-mouthing, threatening to remove custom, blocking …..Basically it the use of tactics/leverage to upset and limit.
However nowadays there is a number of different interpretations of the phrase - It can now mean anything from bad-mouthing, threatening to remove custom, blocking …..Basically it the use of tactics/leverage to upset and limit.
Iron Domokun
Mongoose
I knew where black-balling comes from, and it's cricket bats here in Australia. Anyway, I wanted to know what these SFB guys specifically are doing to discourage ACTASF.
andywatkins1963
Mongoose
Sounds like they have just had a chat and decided between themselves they don't want to play it. Seems fair.
Of course if they have threathened the shop owner with decapitation or ritual disembowlment of his favourite pet if he continues to sell the accursed models that is probably taking dislike of a game a little too far...
Andy
Of course if they have threathened the shop owner with decapitation or ritual disembowlment of his favourite pet if he continues to sell the accursed models that is probably taking dislike of a game a little too far...
Andy
This discussion of "blackballing" has me very unhappy. If "our" SFB players are acting out, I need to know it and I need some details. ADB didn't hesitate to let our feelings be known when we heard about such at a con where they played Federation Commander; we will not hesitate about this. I just need enough information to make the post non-nebulous.
Jean
Director of Marketing, ADB, Inc.
Jean
Director of Marketing, ADB, Inc.
DaemonBorn
Mongoose
msprange said:
Thanks I placed an order last night in the hope that was the case.
MarkDawg said:
While I certainly would not characterize the delay as slight, I also don't consider it catastrophic in that this is toy money, not mortgage, food, car payments or medical bills.
Spartan has had similar problems on all three of their games, Brigade Models had massive delays on their Land Ironclads range and Blue Moon/Old Glory has all sorts of early hiccups on their 15/18mm ranges. I've seen greens displayed and preorders announced and not seen a final product for years on some 25/28mm historical ranges. For ACTASF, toss in the conversion to resin and the adjustments needed to go straight from CAD to cast and in retrospect, I should have assumed there would be issues. Delays in the gaming world are quite common and three months, while very irksome to me (first order placed 11/18/2011), is not uncommon and certainly not unprecedented. I'll give Mongoose credit for reaching out on the forum and addressing the consumers as far too many in the industry have been known to go 'radio silent' when troubles occur.
That said, I want my toys so I can get to painting my Klingons and order the next fleet. :wink:
Nazgull2k1
Mongoose
I also despise the term "Blackballing" in regards to *any* game system. It shows the small minded person for who they really are.
Which, in answer to the question posed to me.. is what drew my "ire" out in full force.
Ive SEEN alot of the SFB players in person.. alot of them are highly intelligent, decent people. If your telling me a bunch of trolls are sitting in some back room spouting hate about a product.. they do not deserve any respect from anyone in any gaming community.
Just as a comparison, I despise D&D 4th Edition, and I think WoTC is literally grinding the game into dust.. but I have never ever badmouthed the product to anyone except to say "its not the D&D you remember.. not even close." Which isnt really badmouthing it.. but is, in truth, a fact. I've even played a few 1 off games. Its not for me. Do I go around telling everyone Im "blackballing" it, or badmouthing it? Nope.
Please note - In no way is this post directed at anyone (before *that* little argument jumps off.) except people who outright hate something for no real reason. Kinda like a certain WW2 person hated a certain class of people "just because they weren't like everyone else"
also before you say it.. yeah.. thats *exactly* how I feel about people who badmouth something without cause.
*edit* and before anyone says "well of course you support it, you paid for it." that would be a negative as well. Ive only played it once, I have no personal investment into the game/company yet! lol
Which, in answer to the question posed to me.. is what drew my "ire" out in full force.
Ive SEEN alot of the SFB players in person.. alot of them are highly intelligent, decent people. If your telling me a bunch of trolls are sitting in some back room spouting hate about a product.. they do not deserve any respect from anyone in any gaming community.
Just as a comparison, I despise D&D 4th Edition, and I think WoTC is literally grinding the game into dust.. but I have never ever badmouthed the product to anyone except to say "its not the D&D you remember.. not even close." Which isnt really badmouthing it.. but is, in truth, a fact. I've even played a few 1 off games. Its not for me. Do I go around telling everyone Im "blackballing" it, or badmouthing it? Nope.
Please note - In no way is this post directed at anyone (before *that* little argument jumps off.) except people who outright hate something for no real reason. Kinda like a certain WW2 person hated a certain class of people "just because they weren't like everyone else"
also before you say it.. yeah.. thats *exactly* how I feel about people who badmouth something without cause.
*edit* and before anyone says "well of course you support it, you paid for it." that would be a negative as well. Ive only played it once, I have no personal investment into the game/company yet! lol
So, how are they doing that? Just because one set of player isn't buying a product doesn't prevent other players form buying it. If you walk in there, pick up a box of minis and take it to the counter, are they going to grab it out of your hands and throw it across the room???Da Boss said:
I was at the game story the other day, and almost all the tables were full of Magic card games, probably forty players. Did any of them stop me from picking up and buying the Nobal Armada rulebook?? No. None of them are interest in playing real games, but they don't stop anyone else from buying them.
I fail to see how a small group of SFB players is stopping this store from selling Mongoose minis.
I have to agree with Sgt_G and Da Boss – it is difficult to understand how and why this store is having the problem - However it is possible for small groups to exert a disproportionate amount of pressure by utilising correct tactics and leverage.
But let's be positive - the ACTA:SF products I have seen and received are some of the best I have seen in a long time – Both companies staff have to be thanked for the effort they have put in to achieving this.
(and look on the bright side – if one shop won’t stock – there are plenty more that will - let them make the profit)
But let's be positive - the ACTA:SF products I have seen and received are some of the best I have seen in a long time – Both companies staff have to be thanked for the effort they have put in to achieving this.
(and look on the bright side – if one shop won’t stock – there are plenty more that will - let them make the profit)
The Klingons have arrived. I just received the first squadron box today. First inspection shows three almost perfect castings, one near-perfect cating, and one very good casting. The F5, D6, and C8 all look flawless. The C7 has a notch on the boom right behind the bridge, whether by design or casting, that I want to fill in to to give the bridge bubble a little extra strength. The D7 has three small air bubbles, two right under the surface (I'll pop and fill them) and one that ate a tiny bite out of the aft hull right of the edge where the top and front plates meet -- should be easy to fix. All in all, I am very happy with the quality of the castings. If this keeps up with the rest of the minis I have coming, it'll been worth the wait. The mini designs are far above what they look like in photos. Well done.
Nazgull2k1
Mongoose
Sgt_G said:
This right here is why Im holding off on purchasing anything.
Im sorry, dont get me wrong, and I hate to mention "other" companies. But I have never.. *ever* had any problems with GW or Privateer Models anywhere *near* the scope im seeing on these forums and on review sites for ACTA:SF. It seems like almost every single box has at least 2 defective models, some even more then that. I was hoping that the 2nd run of the models would be improving.. but from the sound of it.. its not.
I dont do "Oh I'll fix it myself." I dont pay money to someone else to "fix it myself."
If I have to do the work that should be done at the factory, your more then welcome to pay me for that effort.
Ive already made a deal with my FLGS. Im getting 2 complete squad boxes of Fed, Kling and Rom.... even if he has to rip open EVERY SINGLE box in the shipment, and send all the garbage back. Several store owners Ive talked to now are already getting annoyed with the sheer amount of customer complaints regarding "extremely" defective models. Some of them are already forming a list up for the next shipment.. others have shut it down and simply tell them to call customer service.
This to me.. is *not* good customer quality product. Your name is on the boxes, they should be going out ALOT cleaner then what Im seeing and reading and hearing. Or at the very least, something should be announced/posted etc letting us know that this *is* an issue thats being worked on, and amends will be made. Because the silence to me is absolutely deafening.
I hate to do it, but Im not purchasing anything until I see and hear the models are coming out more stable and higher quality.
Now some may ask where this comes from.. but I just got home from my game shop tonight, and I had a chance to see exactly what all the complaints were about. His Klingon box had ONE "decent" ship. The rest were complete garbage that never should have come off a Quality Inspection line. The one D7 literally had a hole in it big enough to put my fingertip in. Like a half melted candle. No detail on the ship.. it looked like something my 6 yr old would make in pottery class. He was completely peeved, I tried to say he just got a bad box.. then he showed me his Fed squad.. and that one was almost as bad. Models I wouldnt touch with a 10 foot pole, much less spend 30+ dollars on.
Not seen bad casts as yet - but then only had one squadron box - not seen the bad cast reports but not really looked on sites for them.
To be honest I would not be suprised if there are qulaity issues to start which are compounding the supply problems - it happened with Spartan and it happened with GW and Finecast in a big way to start with...................
At least the ships now have holes drilled in them - the old B5 stuff didn't
To be honest I would not be suprised if there are qulaity issues to start which are compounding the supply problems - it happened with Spartan and it happened with GW and Finecast in a big way to start with...................
At least the ships now have holes drilled in them - the old B5 stuff didn't
I have gotten all three squadron boxes so far and all the cast seem fine. There are a few problem spots and quite a bit of flash. The spots are no more than I have seen with any of the other miniature games I have been involved with. The flash is more excessive but most all of it can be removed by fingernail in just a couple of seconds. The detail is some of the best I have seen. The only minis I have seen with that kind of detail are the resin Summoner and Hellbringer Catalyst put out in their boxed set.
Nazgull2k1 said:
You clearly didn't follow "fine"cast launch if you think THOSE are major issues. Think about 100$+ boxes which are just unusable when huge parts of models have details totally ruined in casting process. Think lots of air bubbles. Messed up details. You name it, GW has it.
Yeah, nothing I've seen so far even comes close to being in the same league as the Failcast launch.
Occasional flaws in resin or metal models happen, particularly on sticky outy bits, but Failcast was the worst launch of a model line I've ever seen, where the hype diverged so completely with the product.
The problem I have with the ACTA launch is I don't have two painted fleets sitting on my shelf right now because of delay after delay on the fleet boxes. I've seen plenty of finecast miniatures, and frankly the quality is so low that on the majority there are areas that need resculpting from scratch, rather than simply filling in a bubble or a bit of minor pitting.
GW have said they have to charge more for finecast because the moulds need replacing more often, so they're charging more for models in a cheaper material that have glaring quality issues in models that have passed quality control.
The worse I've had with ACTA:NA is smoothing off some of the flat surfaces after removing moulding lugs. I wouldn't buy a Finecast mini unseen because I have no faith it will meet minimum standards.
GW apparently feel the same way, and they're sitting on another 17 character sprues for forthcoming releases to replace metal models instead of converting them to finecast.
Occasional flaws in resin or metal models happen, particularly on sticky outy bits, but Failcast was the worst launch of a model line I've ever seen, where the hype diverged so completely with the product.
The problem I have with the ACTA launch is I don't have two painted fleets sitting on my shelf right now because of delay after delay on the fleet boxes. I've seen plenty of finecast miniatures, and frankly the quality is so low that on the majority there are areas that need resculpting from scratch, rather than simply filling in a bubble or a bit of minor pitting.
GW have said they have to charge more for finecast because the moulds need replacing more often, so they're charging more for models in a cheaper material that have glaring quality issues in models that have passed quality control.
The worse I've had with ACTA:NA is smoothing off some of the flat surfaces after removing moulding lugs. I wouldn't buy a Finecast mini unseen because I have no faith it will meet minimum standards.
GW apparently feel the same way, and they're sitting on another 17 character sprues for forthcoming releases to replace metal models instead of converting them to finecast.