Spirit Magic still not clear

[Harshlax]

Hi Loz and everyone else, the Cults book is great and provides some extra examples of spirits in shamanic practices but I would appreciate some form of expanded article fully discussing Spirit Magic and how it works because as has been acknowledged, the main book doesn't make it terribly clear.

Is there going to be such an article in the future or am I alone in struggling to figure out the limits of spirit magic?

 

[Ultor]

Hi Loz and everyone else, the Cults book is great and provides some extra examples of spirits in shamanic practices but I would appreciate some form of expanded article fully discussing Spirit Magic and how it works because as has been acknowledged, the main book doesn't make it terribly clear.

Is there going to be such an article in the future or am I alone in struggling to figure out the limits of spirit magic?

I'd like to see it as well. The intended combat use (of nature spirits at least) to augment the magician doesn't seem to be as effective as just letting them attack the magician's enemies in Spirit Combat. I have to say that in the combats I've run against Shamans, the Shamans have not provided much opposition unless they've used the spirits as ghosts, in essence (pun unintended).

And spirit combat seems an all-or-nothing thing. Opponents with high persistence can basically shrug off the attacks until they fail a roll, at which point they're toast. So far, my players have been lucky. I worry that I'm facing a TPK when they start rolling badly in such circumstances. So I'm contemplating other things than spectral dismemberment, such as spirits that bargain with discorporated PCs when they have them at their mercy and so on.

I'd look forward to an essay with a few examples of spirit interaction and perhaps a fully-statted up Shaman with his/her spirits (there was an interesting example of such for RQ3 in a Heroes magazine issue, iirc).

It'd make a good Signs & Portents piece.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

I'd like to see it as well. The intended combat use (of nature spirits at least) to augment the magician doesn't seem to be as effective as just letting them attack the magician's enemies in Spirit Combat. I have to say that in the combats I've run against Shamans, the Shamans have not provided much opposition unless they've used the spirits as ghosts, in essence (pun unintended).

You should bear in mind that not all nature spirits will have 'discorporate' as a skill. It was intended that only a sub-sect of spirits had the capability to initiate Spirit Combat on mortals on the material plane, as intimated on p141.

And spirit combat seems an all-or-nothing thing. Opponents with high persistence can basically shrug off the attacks until they fail a roll, at which point they're toast.

Yes, Spirit Combat is dangerous. It is deliberately designed to be so. Yet it is no different than facing a Sever Spirit or a Dominate (Human) spell.

So far, my players have been lucky. I worry that I'm facing a TPK when they start rolling badly in such circumstances. So I'm contemplating other things than spectral dismemberment, such as spirits that bargain with discorporated PCs when they have them at their mercy and so on.

That is precisely what you should be encouraging. As I am always re-iterating on this forum, losing a fight does not (and in most cases should not) equate to death. In fact being possessed by a spirit can lead to lots of role-playing entertainment. :wink:

 

[Ultor]

You should bear in mind that not all nature spirits will have 'discorporate' as a skill. It was intended that only a sub-sect of spirits had the capability to initiate Spirit Combat on mortals on the material plane, as intimated on p141.

Thanks, Pete. This is a useful clarification. As I mentioned, it would be nice to see an example Shaman with tactical notes. I might draw one up and see what you think.

Yes, Spirit Combat is dangerous. It is deliberately designed to be so. Yet it is no different than facing a Sever Spirit or a Dominate (Human) spell.

Yet those are rare (few cults/orders have access to either spell) while spirits have always been quite common in RQ. And it's not so much what the spirits are doing to the character as its mundane allies while the body is helpless...

That is precisely what you should be encouraging. As I am always re-iterating on this forum, losing a fight does not (and in most cases should not) equate to death. In fact being possessed by a spirit can lead to lots of role-playing entertainment. :wink:

Indeed. In fact, if I was a slaver, I'd have a shaman on hand to get the prime specimens easily. Or perhaps the spirit cults gravitate towards slavery... There's all sorts of ways to think about this. Spirits are perhaps the biggest change in this great new edition from previous editions of Runequest, and it'd be great to have more about them to underline this.

 

[daxos232]

I think it would be great if an example of spirit magic used in combat could be provided. One that would include the use of a couple different kinds of spirits, or maybe just one example for each kind.

I have not had any of my players use spirit magic yet in my games. They seem unsure of it, despite my encouragement. If there was an example that showed the power of spirit magic they may understand its strength.

 

[Harshlax]

So, any word from Loz or Matt etc over whether they are working on a Spirit Magic rewrite/extended article?

I've already set my players backgrounds as traditionalist Orlanthi type so that I don't have to deal with Spirit Magic, even though one player wanted to play a primitive.

 

[Loz]

So, any word from Loz or Matt etc over whether they are working on a Spirit Magic rewrite/extended article?

I've already set my players backgrounds as traditionalist Orlanthi type so that I don't have to deal with Spirit Magic, even though one player wanted to play a primitive.

Pete's working on something for S&P, I believe.

You can play Orlanthi animists, you know. Kolat is the spirit cult of the Orlanthi and the write-up in CoG describes, in some detail, the spirits available.

 

[Mongoose Pete]

So, any word from Loz or Matt etc over whether they are working on a Spirit Magic rewrite/extended article?

I've already set my players backgrounds as traditionalist Orlanthi type so that I don't have to deal with Spirit Magic, even though one player wanted to play a primitive.

Pete's working on something for S&P, I believe.

You can play Orlanthi animists, you know. Kolat is the spirit cult of the Orlanthi and the write-up in CoG describes, in some detail, the spirits available.

I'm very busy at the moment, but I hope to get at least one article done in October. How long it'll take to get into S&P afterwards might be several months, but when it comes it'll be an extension/clarification, not a rewrite.

So nothing in the short term I'm afraid.

 

[Harshlax]

Good to get an answer at least. Thanks for that, I do appreciate how busy you all are with your various irons in the fire.