We had one spell critical in my session on Saturday night, and one fumble. We were all disappointed at how minimal the impact was - only one Magic Point difference in each case. Divine users are well-served by criticals, but sorcerors barely notice them. I think there was some discussion some time back about doubling the Magnitude on a critical, or giving free extra manipulations. In the case of the critical that we did get, it was Common Magic and so just cost 1MP instead of 2. Has anyone had any ideas about how to spice up crits and fumbles? There is good justification for them not being as good as crits in AHRQ since they are twice as common nowadays.
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Spell criticals and fumbles
- Thread starter PhilHibbs
- Start date
I've often been bothered by the fact that when a sorcerer critically casts wrack against an enemy, the defender can simply dismiss the effect with a simple resilience roll.
I think critically cast spells should have steeper consequences for the defender and agree with the line of thinking proposed here.
Similarly, it also bothers me that a sorcerer can put 20 points of manipulation into Magnitude when casting an offensive spell, without causing the spell to be more difficult for defenders to resist.
I get that sorcerers have a great perk in terms of being so flexible in how they use magic, but I think these points show that there's a bit of a disconnect in the way their spells are resisted, based on the spell's overall power.
I think critically cast spells should have steeper consequences for the defender and agree with the line of thinking proposed here.
Similarly, it also bothers me that a sorcerer can put 20 points of manipulation into Magnitude when casting an offensive spell, without causing the spell to be more difficult for defenders to resist.
I get that sorcerers have a great perk in terms of being so flexible in how they use magic, but I think these points show that there's a bit of a disconnect in the way their spells are resisted, based on the spell's overall power.
Simulacrum
Mongoose
My group has always tended to some severe penalties for spell fumbles - and these are often now less likely rather than more, so that's OK. Typical would be to reverse the effect of a defensive spell, or apply it to a random member of the opposition, and likewise with an offensive spell either reverse the effect if it can reasonably provide the target with an advantage, or randomly target the caster or one of his friends. We tend to leave the actual application to GM discretion guided by what is the most inconvenient (and therefor amusing) outcome rather than work from a random effects table, just because spell effects are very varied. But other things can happen - such as a random release of all the caster's magic points. Magic feels more fun if there's an element of playing with fire.
Isn't the Resilience roll an opposed test?Chrönos said:I've often been bothered by the fact that when a sorcerer critically casts wrack against an enemy, the defender can simply dismiss the effect with a simple resilience roll.
PhilHibbs said:We had one spell critical in my session on Saturday night, and one fumble. We were all disappointed at how minimal the impact was - only one Magic Point difference in each case. Divine users are well-served by criticals, but sorcerors barely notice them. I think there was some discussion some time back about doubling the Magnitude on a critical, or giving free extra manipulations. In the case of the critical that we did get, it was Common Magic and so just cost 1MP instead of 2. Has anyone had any ideas about how to spice up crits and fumbles? There is good justification for them not being as good as crits in AHRQ since they are twice as common nowadays.
Totally agree, I think as a minimum a failed spell should lose all of attempted spell points. I really prefer bad consequences for failing spells (al la war hammer frp) but in a world like glorantha when magic is common place, not so sure.
Maybe worst consequences for more than common magic, use of sanity or soul loss for sorcerers???
In some settings, sure, Lankhmar probably has its own rules for that kind of thing. But not in Glorantha - sorcery is Right and True and sanctioned by God.taxboy said:Maybe worst consequences for more than common magic, use of sanity or soul loss for sorcerers???
PhilHibbs said:In some settings, sure, Lankhmar probably has its own rules for that kind of thing. But not in Glorantha - sorcery is Right and True and sanctioned by God.taxboy said:Maybe worst consequences for more than common magic, use of sanity or soul loss for sorcerers???
Meldek!!!
Sorry, but I still play Third Age Glorantha :lol:
You can play good and righteous Malkioni in the Third Age. And you can play barbarians that hate/fear meldeks in the Second Age.Vagni said:Meldek!!!
Sorry, but I still play Third Age Glorantha :lol:
PhilHibbs said:You can play good and righteous Malkioni in the Third Age. And you can play barbarians that hate/fear meldeks in the Second Age.Vagni said:Meldek!!!
Sorry, but I still play Third Age Glorantha :lol:
Very true. But my old groups attitude was to kill 'em all and let Malkion sort them out! But then they met Arlateen and his endless supply of gold coins... :lol:
No one yet, and I just finished. Some of the stuff on here are submissions by my players from my RPOL game, "Branneron's Black Guard," and some of the others are nicked and adapted from other systems, but I like to think I came up with the best ones. Doesn't everybody?
Here's what I got.
Fumble table:
1. Blanche!- Caster skin, hair and eyes are drained alabaster white. Effect lasts until a difficult (-20) resilience roll is made. This roll can be attempted once per day. Once made, the Caster will return to normal in d6 days. Halve the Casters effective CHA score, and influence skill for the duration of the blanching.
2. Mixup, Self! - Spell is cast on user (if harmful) or random nearby foe (if beneficial). If item based, on nearby random item.
3. Mixup, Other! - Spell is cast on nearby companion (if harmful) or random nearby foe (if beneficial). If item based, on nearby random item.
4. Stunned!- Spell failure stuns the mind of the caster, creating the same effects as combat stunning (loss of 1d3 CA, but can still parry or evade).
5. Bamph!- Spell creates a puff of smoke, a loud noise, a bright flash, and awful odor, etc. No other effect (although, if the point was to remain silent, this could have another effect...)
6. Illusory effect! - The spell seems to work, but the effect is an illusion- GM should try to convince everyone that the spell did, in fact work.
7. What was that? - Spell fails and caster temporarily forgets the spell. Roll the spell skill once per week beginning the next day to remember the spell.
8. He's not with me! - Caster accidentally summons an angry elemental- Roll randomly for type and size (1=Gnome, 2=Salamander, 3=Sylph, 4=Undine) . The Elemental can be dispelled or bound. It will not just leave though. It is permanent. It might even show up at the bar and have a drink. After it tries to kill you.
9. He's not with me either! - Caster accidentally tears open the veil between realities and allows a Spirit to enter. Roll randomly for type (1=Bane Spirit, 2=Sickness spirit, 3=Ancestor Spirit, 4=Nature Spirit, 5=Guardian Spirit, 6=Curse Spirit), strength (Intensity= d6-1 x 6 with lowest intensity being 1) , and temperament (1=Friendly, 2=Friendly but with seeks payment, 3=Neutral, 4=Unfriendly, 5=Hostile, 6=Very Hostile). Spirits can be bound. Hostile and very hostile will attack caster immediately. GM's choice of how to deal with the others.
10. Loss of Confidence! - Spell fails and all subsequent spell attempts are at -10%. A persistence roll can be made once per hour to shake the demoralizing effect.
11. Loss of power! - lose twice the MP you spent.
12. Costly magic! - lose three times the MP spent on the spell
13. Wild Magic! - Spell effect get warped (Attack spells attack multiple friends, fly sends things around you to the air, Telepathy mean you are broadcasting everything, magnitude of spell increases dramatically, mix and match any of the above, be creative-GM's choice).
14. Tiring Magic! - You gain a level of fatigue per Magic point spent
15. Flare out! - Your current MP total is cut in half and you gain 1 level of fatigue
16. Blow out! - Your current MP total is decreased by 3/4ths and you gain 2 levels of fatigue.
17. Gassed and Passed Out! - Lose all of your MP's and pass out. Regain consciousness and MP's as normal. Dangerous around the wrong group of friends.
18. Backlash! - Spell magnitude is transferred directly into damage points. All of the damage is taken by a random hit location. Armor and Magical armor will not protect against this damage (it is essentially internal, and "inside" your defenses).
19. Blow up! - The mystic energies being manipulated go wrong. Horribly wrong. An explosion occurs doing 1d6 damage to the arm used to cast the spell. If a 6 is rolled, the roll is made again to a random hit location (this can include the same arm). Armor does not protect against this damage, but magical armor will- unless the armoring spells magnitude is overcome by the total damage value, in which case the armoring spell is dismissed.
20. Fumbled fumble! - The spell actually does work.
Here's what I got.
Fumble table:
1. Blanche!- Caster skin, hair and eyes are drained alabaster white. Effect lasts until a difficult (-20) resilience roll is made. This roll can be attempted once per day. Once made, the Caster will return to normal in d6 days. Halve the Casters effective CHA score, and influence skill for the duration of the blanching.
2. Mixup, Self! - Spell is cast on user (if harmful) or random nearby foe (if beneficial). If item based, on nearby random item.
3. Mixup, Other! - Spell is cast on nearby companion (if harmful) or random nearby foe (if beneficial). If item based, on nearby random item.
4. Stunned!- Spell failure stuns the mind of the caster, creating the same effects as combat stunning (loss of 1d3 CA, but can still parry or evade).
5. Bamph!- Spell creates a puff of smoke, a loud noise, a bright flash, and awful odor, etc. No other effect (although, if the point was to remain silent, this could have another effect...)
6. Illusory effect! - The spell seems to work, but the effect is an illusion- GM should try to convince everyone that the spell did, in fact work.
7. What was that? - Spell fails and caster temporarily forgets the spell. Roll the spell skill once per week beginning the next day to remember the spell.
8. He's not with me! - Caster accidentally summons an angry elemental- Roll randomly for type and size (1=Gnome, 2=Salamander, 3=Sylph, 4=Undine) . The Elemental can be dispelled or bound. It will not just leave though. It is permanent. It might even show up at the bar and have a drink. After it tries to kill you.
9. He's not with me either! - Caster accidentally tears open the veil between realities and allows a Spirit to enter. Roll randomly for type (1=Bane Spirit, 2=Sickness spirit, 3=Ancestor Spirit, 4=Nature Spirit, 5=Guardian Spirit, 6=Curse Spirit), strength (Intensity= d6-1 x 6 with lowest intensity being 1) , and temperament (1=Friendly, 2=Friendly but with seeks payment, 3=Neutral, 4=Unfriendly, 5=Hostile, 6=Very Hostile). Spirits can be bound. Hostile and very hostile will attack caster immediately. GM's choice of how to deal with the others.
10. Loss of Confidence! - Spell fails and all subsequent spell attempts are at -10%. A persistence roll can be made once per hour to shake the demoralizing effect.
11. Loss of power! - lose twice the MP you spent.
12. Costly magic! - lose three times the MP spent on the spell
13. Wild Magic! - Spell effect get warped (Attack spells attack multiple friends, fly sends things around you to the air, Telepathy mean you are broadcasting everything, magnitude of spell increases dramatically, mix and match any of the above, be creative-GM's choice).
14. Tiring Magic! - You gain a level of fatigue per Magic point spent
15. Flare out! - Your current MP total is cut in half and you gain 1 level of fatigue
16. Blow out! - Your current MP total is decreased by 3/4ths and you gain 2 levels of fatigue.
17. Gassed and Passed Out! - Lose all of your MP's and pass out. Regain consciousness and MP's as normal. Dangerous around the wrong group of friends.
18. Backlash! - Spell magnitude is transferred directly into damage points. All of the damage is taken by a random hit location. Armor and Magical armor will not protect against this damage (it is essentially internal, and "inside" your defenses).
19. Blow up! - The mystic energies being manipulated go wrong. Horribly wrong. An explosion occurs doing 1d6 damage to the arm used to cast the spell. If a 6 is rolled, the roll is made again to a random hit location (this can include the same arm). Armor does not protect against this damage, but magical armor will- unless the armoring spells magnitude is overcome by the total damage value, in which case the armoring spell is dismissed.
20. Fumbled fumble! - The spell actually does work.
taxboy said:*snip* I really prefer bad consequences for failing spells (al la war hammer frp) *snip*
Agreed, Tzeentch's Curse was the best thing to happen to magic in WFRP. At least as far as the GM's sadistic enjoyment is concerned. :twisted:
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