Speculative trade

[Chernobyl]

Anybody else notice that the Modified Price Table changed between the core rules and Book 7 - Merchant Prince?
previously it capped at 21+, now it goes up to 24+.
A relatively average roll (10 on a 3D6) used to break even, at 100% each way, now its a 15% loss (100% buy, 85% sell).

 

[far-trader]

Buy high, sell low... wait, what?

Don't have Book 7 but could there be (new/changed) skill DMs you missed to offset the change?

 

[rust]

Yes, but because of the additional modifiers used in the
Merchant Prince system the average result of a trade re-
mains more or less the same.

 

[Chernobyl]

additional modifiers, like what, influence? You can't count on that all the time, and shouldn't have to count on it to break even. If you flub the influence it hurts you even more.

Also, the tax system seems funky. If you are able to buy low enough, you can sell below market value and still net a profit, that is tax-free. is that correct?

 

[rust]

additional modifiers, like what, influence?

No, Risk vs. Reward. If the characters want to earn money with
speculative trade, they should be willing to take a little risk, and
this is possible with all trade goods except the most basic ones.

As for the taxes, since the tax inspector at the destination planet
cannot know how much the trader paid for the goods at their pla-
net of origin, he has to judge the trader's profit based upon the
average market value of the goods.

 

[Captain Jonah]

Merchant prince makes the whole trading thing a bit harder all round.

Having to make rolls to get more than Cr500 per ton of cargo and the fact that the table has changed makes the life of an average trader more difficult.

Broker 1/Admin 1 etc don't make up the difference, you really need at least +2 and do better hiring a broker +4. A crew of adventurers one of whom has broker one will make losses and be forced into risky deals and going on adventures fairly often.

With a ship as inherently difficult to make pay as a mortgaged far trader failing a few rolls and hauling cargo at Cr500 per Dton can push you over into losses each month.
Properly set up and with high skills you are fine, with low skills or pluses and a ship even marginally usable for trade unless your ref is kind you will quickly run into trouble.

Use the core rule book table for normal games, use the book 7 table for frontier and cross border games or anything set in one of the wars or rebellion type eras. The core book is a gentler table, the book 7 table is harder and reflects wider price changes more likely to happen in times of uncertainty.

 

[rust]

The trade system of the core rules is nice for trade as a
background activity to provide a mixed group of adven-
turers with the money required to finance their starship.
The trade system of Merchant Prince is better suited for
a game where trade is the focus and the characters co-
me from the right careers and therefore have the right
skills and skill levels.

 

[Chernobyl]

as it stands we're doing the trade "offline" between game sessions. I'm still making good money though...broker 1+1 (secretary), Social +2, and influence 5+ (for a +3) so if I make influence, I'm a net +7. If I flub influence I'm a +1 and may not break even. And having my trade spreadsheet helps me select the best goods to trade at the planet...

 

[Chernobyl]

we're also looking at a different way of doing taxation because by the rules I wouldn't have paid any tax at my first trip (taxable income would have been -42,500; when actual income between purchase price and sale price would have been about 530,000.)
and thats on only 22 tons of speculative trading.

 

[rust]

we're also looking at a different way of doing taxation ...

You only have to assume a reliable cooperation between the
bureaucracies of a region's planets, enabling the tax inspector
on Planet B (where the goods are sold) to have trustworthy in-
formations about the transaction on Planet A (where the goods
were purchased). Of course, this would open many doors and
windows for corruption and for forgeries of the relevant docu-
ments, but this is no problem if it fits into your setting.

 

[far-trader]

we're also looking at a different way of doing taxation ...

You only have to assume a reliable cooperation between the
bureaucracies of a region's planets, enabling the tax inspector
on Planet B (where the goods are sold) to have trustworthy in-
formations about the transaction on Planet A (where the goods
were purchased). Of course, this would open many doors and
windows for corruption and for forgeries of the relevant docu-
ments, but this is no problem if it fits into your setting.

Frankly the full transaction details as well as proper transfer of owrnership etc. would be part of the official records. Records without which you'd be unable to resell that speculative cargo on the open market.

You wanna try on the black market and make a killing. OK, just don't get caught by the authorities, or ripped off by your buyer. Or tripped up by a later casual customs inspection... "What ever became of this 20tons of weapons you bought on Keri? I don't see a resale contract and yet it's not in your hold?."

Or maybe you have connections to a Fence? Of course they'll only offer centicreds on the Credit.

If taxation drives the economy of the Imperium they aren't likely to leave huge profitable loopholes one could literally fly a 200ton Beowulf through. Would they? No, of course not. At least not openly legal ones.

The options rust suggests are also good for roleplaying

 

[rust]

If taxation drives the economy of the Imperium they aren't likely to leave huge profitable loopholes one could literally fly a 200ton Beowulf through. Would they? No, of course not. At least not openly legal ones.

I suspect Merchant Prince's strange taxation system was
caused by the intention to make the system setting inde-
pendent.

It does not make sense for the Third Imperium setting, but
it would for example be plausible in my current setting, where
the colony's tax inspector really has no reliable way to know
where and at what price the free trader bought the goods - he
could either trust the merchant's word or log (but he is not that
naive ...) or use another base for the taxation, like the market
value.

Well, that is hypothetical, actually the free traders are not
taxed at all, because their ships are registered elsewhere

... but perhaps I should introduce taxes ... :twisted:

 

[AndrewW]

You wanna try on the black market and make a killing. OK, just don't get caught by the authorities, or ripped off by your buyer. Or tripped up by a later casual customs inspection... "What ever became of this 20tons of weapons you bought on Keri? I don't see a resale contract and yet it's not in your hold?."

Oh sorry, those goods where stolen by pirates, I barely escaped with my life and ship you know.

I lost those weapons on Keri, to a band of raving lunatics wanting to start a revolution, I decided it wasn't a good time to stick around and got out of there as quickly as I could, didn't even file a police report.

 

[RangerDan]

If taxation drives the economy of the Imperium they aren't likely to leave huge profitable loopholes one could literally fly a 200ton Beowulf through. Would they? No, of course not.

Replace "the Imperium" with "Italy"...
Replace "200ton Beowulf" with "brand new Ferrari"...

...and you will have a real-world example of the loopholes rust is talking about.

Corruption, greed and incompetence are incredibly powerful forces.

PS: I'm only picking on Italy because it's been in the news lately. The example applies everywhere to a greater or lesser degree.