space supremacy

[control freak]

EA vs Centauri

10 battle points what EA fleet would you go for. I've tried two selections already and am usually outnumbered by small raid and skirmish level ships that nibble away at my omegas causintg critical hits while the octurian and primus variants slices them in half from 25-35inches away with a rather frightening 6ad,beam,DD,super AP. Any suggestions or should I just get used to having fun dying

 

[nezeray]

Based on a couple of other threads, I'd consider all Sagitarius.

Nezeray

 

[Locutus9956]

well yeah if you use all tourney sagitarius you will win but then your opponent will beat you unconcious with the rulebook

This may be predictable, but I suggest (yes thats right folks you guessed it...)

CHRONOS FRIGATES!!!! YAAAAAAY!!!! Ahem...

Seriusly though, dont know about 10 point battle but at 5 pt battle Ive had good results against the centauri with 1 Warlock, 1 Apollo, 3 Chronos and a Delphi.

For 10 pt Battle I would suggest maybe that, plus another apollo, an Omega 5 more chronos and a second Delphi. You will likely lose a few 1 or 2 Chronos (maybe 3) to beams before they can get behind the centauri main lines but once they do they can inflict some nasty damage. Centauri ships main weakness is that once you get out of their front arcs they tend to have little or no firepower beyond 8". So once your Chronos get past that point they can maneuver to stay between 9 and 12 inches away behind or on the flanks and blast away with their turreted weaponry.

If your opponent shoots at your bigger ships initially so much the better as they will take the punishment and keep the Chronos alive (and if not then you have some formiddable fire support) try to use the scouts to redirect fire for the Omega (and more importanlty the Warlock's) boresighted weapons to infinlict maximum damage on the medium to larger centauri ships. Use the Apollos to either blow smaller ships right out of space or focus their fire on the biggest target on the table (Primus, Secundus, Ocuturion etc) and try to cripple it with critical effects.

This particular fight is one Ive come to know rather well as my most regular opponent has been centauri (and I for the most part play EA though Ive played other races against them too) and Im fortunate to have very good player as the centauri which has forced me to raise my standard of play and learn alot of tricks to use against them

Hope this helps!

 

[Reaverman]

well yeah if you use all tourney sagitarius you will win but then your opponent will beat you unconcious with the rulebook

This may be predictable, but I suggest (yes thats right folks you guessed it...)

CHRONOS FRIGATES!!!! YAAAAAAY!!!! Ahem...

Seriusly though, dont know about 10 point battle but at 5 pt battle Ive had good results against the centauri with 1 Warlock, 1 Apollo, 3 Chronos and a Delphi.

For 10 pt Battle I would suggest maybe that, plus another apollo, an Omega 5 more chronos and a second Delphi. You will likely lose a few 1 or 2 Chronos (maybe 3) to beams before they can get behind the centauri main lines but once they do they can inflict some nasty damage. Centauri ships main weakness is that once you get out of their front arcs they tend to have little or no firepower beyond 8". So once your Chronos get past that point they can maneuver to stay between 9 and 12 inches away behind or on the flanks and blast away with their turreted weaponry.

If your opponent shoots at your bigger ships initially so much the better as they will take the punishment and keep the Chronos alive (and if not then you have some formiddable fire support) try to use the scouts to redirect fire for the Omega (and more importanlty the Warlock's) boresighted weapons to infinlict maximum damage on the medium to larger centauri ships. Use the Apollos to either blow smaller ships right out of space or focus their fire on the biggest target on the table (Primus, Secundus, Ocuturion etc) and try to cripple it with critical effects.

This particular fight is one Ive come to know rather well as my most regular opponent has been centauri (and I for the most part play EA though Ive played other races against them too) and Im fortunate to have very good player as the centauri which has forced me to raise my standard of play and learn alot of tricks to use against them

Hope this helps!

I was tempted with the following EA selection-2 Olympus, 3 Chronos, and 2 Sag. That way, its got some high ships, lots of them, fast, and some awesome firepower. It has played against a shadow fleet (1 Shadow Hunter and 3 Scouts), and won.

 

[Locutus9956]

I assume thats tournament version right Reaver? I can see that being an effective fleet (though I personally dont like skirmish Sags even in small numbers I still feel they are (or at least should be Raid level). But put simply the Chronos is fantastic and will really prove very useful in most games (against that shadow fleet in particular as with 3 scouts most of his firepower is interceptable ). Against 2 Hunters and a Scout it might not fare as well (beams are the Chronos weakness and against shadows you cant avoid their arcs)

 

[Reaverman]

I assume thats tournament version right Reaver? I can see that being an effective fleet (though I personally dont like skirmish Sags even in small numbers I still feel they are (or at least should be Raid level). But put simply the Chronos is fantastic and will really prove very useful in most games (against that shadow fleet in particular as with 3 scouts most of his firepower is interceptable ). Against 2 Hunters and a Scout it might not fare as well (beams are the Chronos weakness and against shadows you cant avoid their arcs)

Yeah its a tourney fleet, but like with all fleets. I suppose if you gear your fleet too much to one enemy fleet, you are going to suffer. I wanted it to be an all round fleet, that could fight various fleets. This fleet has some long range weapons (Sag, and Olymp), whilst nasty close range stuff. If its fighting SM ships, then then you just pack the fleet into squadrons, and have them flying base to base formation. That way, its got really nasty overlapping arcs

 

[B5freak]

EA vs Centauri is a tough fight. Even using the dreaded Tournament Sagittarius, you're going to have a rough time against a prepared Centauri fleet.

If we assume tournament lists, things get better for EA, but if your opponent knows he's going to be playing against EA in Space Superiority, a beam-heavy fleet of mainly Primus and Sulust is almost a given. Since both the Primus and Sulust also have Interceptors 2, you're faced with 5 and 6 Hull ships with more damage than your average ship of the same PL, who can use Concentrate All Firepower! at long range, with double damage and Super AP, while completely ignoring your interceptors, and who usually get to set up after you do, move after you, and fire before you. Throw in one battle point worth of Corvans and the equation gets even uglier.

Playing late era will help since the Warlock will force your opponent to watch his back, and neither the Primus or the Sulust is very good at turning. Playing with ships from the series era (Pre-Warlock) gets tricky.

Again assuming tournament lists, I'd recommend a couple Omegas, Novas, Sagittarius, and Oracles. Maybe even one point worth of Hermes to help with initiative. Since you're limited to only standard missiles when playing with tournament lists, the Sagittarius would be there to try and lame Centauri ships through crits (Standard Missiles = Super AP & Precise). The Nova's would All Power to Engines! straight into the middle of the Centuari formation. Meanwhile the Oracles would be doing their best to give the Omegas a re-roll on Heavy Laser shots at the Centauri big ships. Top priority would be given to anything with a Battle Laser since your Interceptors are useless against those.

 

[Hash]

Against 2 Hunters and a Scout it might not fare as well

Yeah that's what I was hoping

 

[Lazy_bum_student]

Nah its sky full of stars at the moment, and lets hope shakey doesnt see all these good ideas and work out counters before the next game. Oh and one other thing about this guys battle line, he pretty much goes all out hull 6's.

 

[B5freak]

Lazy_bum_student wrote:

Nah its sky full of stars at the moment, and lets hope shakey doesnt see all these good ideas and work out counters before the next game. Oh and one other thing about this guys battle line, he pretty much goes all out hull 6's.

Yeah, that's pretty ugly. A fleet full of Primus, Prefects, Eultarians, and Magnus will ruin pretty much anybody's day. I also love how everybody whines about the Skirmish Sagittarius fleet but never talks about the implications of a bunch of Eultarians.

Lets see, Hull 6, Super AP, DD, and Precise on my torpedos, a Sentri flight, and more damage & crew than a Hyperion.

 

[Chernobyl]

...and a +2 init over EA!

 

[Locutus9956]

Another reason to take a Warlock (command).

Again where the battle line is concerened (Especially primusses here) the key is simply to get past his forward arcs and stay there. A single Chronos can destroy a Primus worryingly quickly once it gets past the main fire arc. It might even be worth keeping a few in hyperspace with the warlock and coming in behind the lines (scenario permitting of course)

 

[B5freak]

Locutus wrote:

Another reason to take a Warlock (command).

Again where the battle line is concerened (Especially primusses here) the key is simply to get past his forward arcs and stay there. A single Chronos can destroy a Primus worryingly quickly once it gets past the main fire arc. It might even be worth keeping a few in hyperspace with the warlock and coming in behind the lines (scenario permitting of course)

Yep, the Warlock and Chronos are handy, IF you're playing in a game (In Service) that allows them.

Again, assuming Space Superiority, that the Chronos isn't coming in from Hyperspace, and a cagey Centauri player, it will take a Chronos 3 turns of All Power to Engines to reach the Centauri deployment Zone.

Given that "on average" it will only take one round of shooting using CAF! for a Primus to cripple a Chronos, that gives plenty of time for the Primus to negate any threat from the Chronos, even factoring in 2 Chronos to one Primus.

Of course, if you're playing that far into the future, the obvious strategy is to simply jump the Chronos in with the Warlock behind the Centauri line and suck up the 2 turns of placing the jump point and then sitting around after you come out of it.

 

[Chernobyl]

IIRC the Chronos doesn't even have Jump Point itself, so it will really depend on another ship.

 

[Reaverman]

Personally, regarding playing Tourney's. I see no use in having the Warlock on the table. The EA's crap Initiative bonus, and the lack of numbers will mean you are going to be going last most of the time. You are going to get ganked from all directions too. Maybe if they were running a tourney at Battle level, it would be worth. But Frankly, there are far more vessels to select from , that can get you the same result.

 

[alien027]

A very nasty combo, 1 Warlock with heavy missiles and an Apollo with Long range Missiles. I knowdown a Bin tak complete in two turn with that combo. :wink:

 

[Reaverman]

A very nasty combo, 1 Warlock with heavy missiles and an Apollo with Long range Missiles. I knowdown a Bin tak complete in two turn with that combo. :wink:

Thats if the enemy has also selected high level vessels, but if they select loads of skirmish vessels. You might find your Warlock coming into a bit of a rough time. There are pleny of Narn Vessels at skirmish, with nasty beam weapons. Which they can scatter around the table and attack you from mutliple arcs/Directions. Meaning that you might kill possible 2 per round. But they will also be able to put some big wholes in you, and possible disable some of your weapons. Because there are more of them, it also means that they can iniative sink your warlock.

Now the shadows can select larger vessels, purely because they have SM. Making it bloody hard to outflank, and at the same time they also get to regen too.

 

[Target]

I would stay away from the chronos when fighting Centauri. Im presuming that there will lots of primus and sulusts. I would take 5 primus, 8 Sulusts and 4 Corvan with razik fighters, boring but extremly effective 64 SAP DD dice if SFOS 56 if tournament. Also would have squadrons to maximise the killing power. The 18 crew on the Chronos just made to fragile vs Cent beams. Being a Centauri player i almost laugh when i see a chronos coming towards me. They can be ignored for a round or two while you take the long range support then blast. Warlock is a must though, could use chronos to shield the warlock from harm.

 

[CZuschlag]

I have to concur with Target. Chronos' are optimized with Hull 6 (which sees the least possible value against Super AP weaponry ... which the Battle Laser is), and interceptors 3 (which sees the least value against beam/mini-beam ... which the Battle Laser is!). What a nightmare. Some thoughts:

Apollos at range with a few Sags in front is a good start. But even there, I don't think it's quite enough. But, noting that Sulusts only have 1 45 turn in them, I think jumping in directly behind them is the way to go.

You'll need to do it with big beefy things to eat all those twin arrays, too; I suggest Novae. They're all Jump-capable, allowing you to open boatloads of jump points as initiative sinks all over, and, after he moves all his ships, you can choose which one/ones you want to leave through. Put those jump gates in all arcs, all over the place -- you'll end up only using one or two, but we want to give the Centauri absolutely no idea which direction you'll be actually be coming out of, so he can't bring more than perhaps 1/2 of his Battle Lasers to bear on you as you exit.

Hey, I know, half of those Lasers will still sting like heck, but I can't help that bit. Sorry. But at least he's turning, so I got rid of the CAF, right? Well, aside from the Corvans. About those things ....

A few of the jump points you may even get greedy with and try to jump-bomb the Corvans; I mean, heck, behind all those 45 degree only turning ships is probably where we want to be anyways, so you're not wasing a jump point exit, and a dead Corvan is a very good thing(TM). You'll only eat a fraction of his Battle Lasers this way, especially if you have a bunch of back-of-board initiative sinks ... do I hear Delphi, anyone? Of course I do!

This would also be the correct moment for the Apollos and Saggitarius to come out from whatever cover there is and start firing all those Flash missiles.

Of course, if his formation goes all to pot trying to cover all the potential jump points and succeeds in scaring you off from 'em, you fire a few missiles, and use the other ships's jump points next turn in different places. You'll only get a few shots at it with the second move, however, because of the 3 turn reload rule, and your missile ships will be getting a few laser shots every turn.

No guarantees that this'd work. It's what I'd try, though. Hey, it'll make it more interesting than charging 20+ CAFed Battle Lasers. Whee. As much fund as a Laser enema, which is what this fight would be without it.

 

[CZuschlag]

I'm a certified moron. You can't fire Flash missiles with tournament ships as there are no such things as Flash missiles on tournament ships. Standards it is.

It's Sunday, the World Cup is going on, and I'm dumb. Some of these things have to be related.