Sorcery - Critical Success??

[Thraxious]

Hi,

I am a bit confused I think about Sorcery and rolling a Critical Success. My group are recent converts to the game (thanks to D&D 4th, blech) and we are still getting used to all of the rules.

During a recent battle, a character rolled a critical success on a sorcery spell while applying Manipulate Mag. and Targ. to it. The roll was a critical for the spell and for both manipulations. However.. we were left wondering why a critical success for a Sorcery Spell was so completely rubbish??

The way we read the rule.. you do not spend the MP for the Manipulations, ok.. but in order to Critical you have to roll so low that it will almost always be the weakest version of the spell anyway.. so the manipulations would have been useless anyway.. so saving the MP is really just slightly less insult to the injury of having rolled a Crit and your spell being its weakest possible version!

So, 1H sword wielder criticals and gets max damage.. a sorcerer criticals and gets the lamest version of their spell?

Are we missing something? Misreading something? It just makes no sense.. we are unsure how something that is good for every other skill could be so bad for Sorcery. It is like being punished for rolling a Crit!

Please, any insight into this would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Inspector Zero]

I think you might be misinterpreting the rules here.

Firstly, the critical is a success at whatever level of magnitude/ targets/ etc you cast the spell at. Lets say you cast Venom (45%) with Magnitude 5 (45%) on five Targets (45%) and roll a 4. It's a critical success so you apply the full effect of the Venom spell (Magnitude 5x5) to each of the five targets you chose. Rolling low doesn't weaken the effect of your spell.

Normally, casting this spell and using Magnitude and Targets would cost you 2 MP. However, because you rolled a critical you don't burn the MP. Your spell goes off and there's absolutely no cost to you at all. That's the first benefit of the critical.

The next thing that happens is that because you rolled a critical your victims suffer a 10% penalty to resist or counter the spell.

So, not only are the spell manipulation effects free for you the spell is also more difficult to resist.

Those are pretty good benefits from a critical result.

 

[smiorgan]

Hi,

The way we read the rule.. you do not spend the MP for the Manipulations, ok.. but in order to Critical you have to roll so low that it will almost always be the weakest version of the spell anyway.. so the manipulations would have been useless anyway.. so saving the MP is really just slightly less insult to the injury of having rolled a Crit and your spell being its weakest possible version!

So, 1H sword wielder criticals and gets max damage.. a sorcerer criticals and gets the lamest version of their spell?

Are we missing something? Misreading something?

Hi, I guess you misread the manipulation rules. More precisely the Manipulating Sorcery Spell Table.

In my understanding, the percentages in the 'Manipulation Score' column DO NOT INDICATE REQUIRED DIE ROLLS but the required level of skill to perform the manipulation.

In other words, in order to have a Magnitude 7 spell you need to have a skill of at least 61% in manipulation Magnitude, but you do not have to ROLL 61-70. EXAMPLE: If Yakkia has Haste 45% and Manipulation (Mag) 61% he can cast Haste 7, provided that he rolls under both skills. He does not need to roll a 61. If he criticals with a roll of 04, he saves a magic point, gets the -10% to resistance AND gets the Magnitude 7 he wanted.

 

[Thraxious]

I think you might be misinterpreting the rules here.

Firstly, the critical is a success at whatever level of magnitude/ targets/ etc you cast the spell at. Lets say you cast Venom (45%) with Magnitude 5 (45%) on five Targets (45%) and roll a 4. It's a critical success so you apply the full effect of the Venom spell (Magnitude 5x5) to each of the five targets you chose. Rolling low doesn't weaken the effect of your spell.

Normally, casting this spell and using Magnitude and Targets would cost you 2 MP. However, because you rolled a critical you don't burn the MP. Your spell goes off and there's absolutely no cost to you at all. That's the first benefit of the critical.

The next thing that happens is that because you rolled a critical your victims suffer a 10% penalty to resist or counter the spell.

So, not only are the spell manipulation effects free for you the spell is also more difficult to resist.

Those are pretty good benefits from a critical result.

One question though, say I roll 02% and therefor critical. If the spell a resist dodge trait.... all the person has to do to resist is succeed and roll higher then 2? Well.. even with the 10% penalty.. that seems awefully easy to resist. Or is there something like the melee tables for dodge or parry that I am unaware of...?

 

[Rurik]

In an opposed roll the higher level of sucess always wins - so the critical beats any normal success.

So a normal success dodge roll fails to resist the critical. Only a Critical that is a higher roll than an 02 will win the opposed roll.

 

[smiorgan]

In an opposed roll the higher level of sucess always wins - so the critical beats any normal success.

So a normal success dodge roll fails to resist the critical. Only a Critical that is a higher roll than an 02 will win the opposed roll.

It's exactly as Rurik said. If average Joe (Dodge 45%) rolls a 22, he does not beat the 02. If Ohm, the Kralorelan mystic martial arts hero (Dodge 250%) rolls a 22, he resists the spell with flying colors and much fanfare.

 

[Thraxious]

Ok, great. Was hoping that was how it worked.. but I could not find the rule on it, only for melee and ranged.

Most likely I just looked right past it someone under general skill checks I am thinking now...

Thanks again!