SOme odd thoughts for version 2.0 and in General

[Alexb83]

Was there ever any indication that the Minbari are significantly less advanced then than they are 'now'? I've never really read into the 'canon' AoG and B5Wars stuff. They obviously had holo-imaging and gravitic drives back then (from Ww/oE). We don't see them firing any weapons in war without end footage, so no clear sight of beams to prove or disprove that they had them.

Back then, the other Ancients may have been the 'last of the first ones' to which Delenn referred. Though it was always pretty clear to me that the Vorlons were involved (you see two of them with Valen, for a start).

Mongoose, or at least the way it's written in Armageddon though seem to think that the newer designs like the Neroon are the last gasps of a dying race by the Crusade era.

 

[Burger]

JMS always said that the humans and Minbari "make it" in the end, the Narn and Centauri do not. So I don't think the Minbari are dying at all. Maybe having a bit of a dry patch, but not dying.

 

[Epaminondas]

For a great evaluation of the shadows and vorlons meathods of war:

http://efni.org/Shadow_War_Intelligence.htm

My favorite quote:

"Both these ancients adversaries, impressive in their enormous knowledge, in their will and in their power, at the very end were defeated by trivial mistakes, emotional and ideological more than logic choices that, at a last, cold minded glance, can be related to the first Capital Sin of an intelligence agent: arrogance."

One thing I love about the site is that the authors essentially fill in a few gaps in the background to make certain things more logical- ie one of the large factors in the EA defeat in the EA-Minbari war was decommisioning of a large number of ships and decreased military spending. It's consistent with both EA's excellent performance in the Dilgar war, Lando's comment about arrogence and stupidity in one package, and EA's bad performance in the EA-Minbari war.

===

My understanding is that the Minbari were one of the few races to survive the earlier shadow war- most of the younger space faring races didn't surive the first shadow war.

Even the ones that did suffered greatly (removal of telepaths from the prespace narn).

 

[Alexb83]

JMS always said that the humans and Minbari "make it" in the end, the Narn and Centauri do not. So I don't think the Minbari are dying at all. Maybe having a bit of a dry patch, but not dying.

Well, unfortunately they'll have to get where they're going to 'make it' in clapped out old Sharlins, apparently :wink:

 

[Balance]

JMS always said that the humans and Minbari "make it" in the end, the Narn and Centauri do not. So I don't think the Minbari are dying at all. Maybe having a bit of a dry patch, but not dying.

Well, unfortunately they'll have to get where they're going to 'make it' in clapped out old Sharlins, apparently :wink:

I kind of assumed that the thousand year gap between the last Shadow War and the final war was relatively static for the Minbari due to their war effort incorporating a great deal of Vorlon tech. By the end of the war perhaps their entire culture became a bit calcified as they turned inward to spiritual paths as opposed to exploring and researching new technology.

But that's just my opinion.

Any thoughts on the idea of developing a "Lesser races" add-on list useful as allies and to flesh out the LoNAW?

 

[captainsmirk]

Well they seemed to be able to make good use of B4 which would have been less advanced than their present tech. If it was that far behind their own stuff it wouldn't have been worth their while using it. Even refitting it with their own tech would be as cost-effective as building a whole new base of their own, considering the situation they supposed to be in.

Plus you always get the impression that despite their advanced tech the Minbari's records of the last Shadow war aren't really that better than the Narn's (a single grainy recording compared to a in depth if somewhat mystical written account).

Nick

 

[Alexb83]

The period intervening the wars was actually, at least from the impression I got from what snippets of info JMS handed out, the greatest period of growth and development in Minbari history. Before Valen, they warred (in the way that Delenn describes in the later Season 4 eps) between their clans for dominance. They were losing the shadow war until Valen and his Vorlon friends came along with B4, and they turned the tables on the Shadows.

United under Valen, their culture surged forward, amassing a truly enormous fleet of ships (the most advanced in space besides the first ones) which were intended for the next great war. All 3 castes and all the clans were united in following their covenant with Valen.

After the Shadow war they lost their direction and fell back into civil war, but after the death of Neroon I think it was clear that they had a new direction as one of the main members (if not the main member of the ISA) consider: the ISA is based on Minbar, their ships are built using Minbari technology.

 

[captainsmirk]

the ISA is based on Minbar, their ships are built using Minbari technology.

That always did seem like favouritism to me, but I suppose no worse than the UN being in New York...

Except that the UN sort of has to be one country or other, and New York isn't the US capital unlike Minbar...

Nick

 

[Balance]

In the case of the ISA, the two candidates were likely Minbar and Earth. Interestingly, both had had civil wars and known severe incidents of xenophobia of the preceding couple of decades...

One major factor for Minbar was that it may have made the most sense for the technology transfer, and was a loyal supporter of the organization... Plus the ranger tie-in, which I'd guess sealed it. The rangers were already based on Minbar.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Am I the only one that thought the ISA headquarters should have been permanently established on Babylon 5?

 

[JayRaider]

I've always considered the Minbari the corner stone of ISA.
The Earth alliance never did squat for ISA.
The league worlds to busy on there own agendas.
Narn to busy recovering.

 

[emperorpenguin]

and the Centauri too busy being isolationist

 

[LordClinto]

Am I the only one that thought the ISA headquarters should have been permanently established on Babylon 5?

But where would you put their HQ when b5 was/is destroyed?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Replace the station with a new one, similarly located in nuetral space.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Replace the station with a new one, similarly located in nuetral space.

what if it took 5 goes again!?

 

[Alexb83]

They initially did put the HQ on B5, but found that the facilities were too small and inadequate for running the ISA. So they moved to a purpose built facility on Minbar.

 

[captainsmirk]

Am I the only one that thought the ISA headquarters should have been permanently established on Babylon 5?

But where would you put their HQ when b5 was/is destroyed?

B5 was only destroyed because it was abandoned and had become a navigation hazard. If it was the ISA HQ it wouldn't have had to be destroyed.

Nick