So why not let your agenda go?

Sorry, I have the 1981 version of Stormbringer by Ken St. Andre and Steve Perrin. You're talking about a Critical Hit, right? 1/10 or less of the possible skill roll. The defender still has a chance to Parry with a Critical roll also, but the sword will still shatter (unless it's magical, natch :) ).

By the way, the Critical Hits is a way to kill an opponent in a single blow, doubles the damage, and forces the character to roll on the Major Wounds chart. Amputation anyone?
 
dunderm said:
Sorry, I have the 1981 version of Stormbringer by Ken St. Andre and Steve Perrin. You're talking about a Critical Hit, right? 1/10 or less of the possible skill roll. The defender still has a chance to Parry with a Critical roll also, but the sword will still shatter (unless it's magical, natch :) ).

By the way, the Critical Hits is a way to kill an opponent in a single blow, doubles the damage, and forces the character to roll on the Major Wounds chart. Amputation anyone?

I'm referring to the latest version of Stormbringer which is the 5th edition (6th if you count the Elric RPG?).

A critical is 20% of a the skill roll. Yes a critical attack can still be parried with another critical but they added a lot of possible outcomes in the 5th edition that certainly weren't there in the 4th that I also own. I presume they weren't there in the 1981 version either. Also there's no automatic shatter anymore.

I'm not trying to argue that this is a "better" system but to try and claim that any hit can be blocked by any parry result with no ill effect simply isn't true.
 
Good point about Parry. Can you imagine trying to stop a blow by Conan! The phrase "like cutting through hot butter" comes to mind.
 
dunderm said:
Good point about Parry. Can you imagine trying to stop a blow by Conan! The phrase "like cutting through hot butter" comes to mind.

That's one of the good points about the BRP system. A Conan type character with a high attack skill can often smash/break the weapon of someone trying to parry his blows.

However it takes three rolls for each attack (attack, defence and damage) to work that out. Horse for courses.....
 
Then I think the resolution systems are fairly comparable in BRP and d20. Critical roll tables are nothing new in any RPG. Everyone has a preference for each system, and I don't think we need to make the choice. Maybe, both system could take a page from each other and come away a better system, I don't know, but I for one am willing to give it a try.

Due to Ken St. Andre who also designed Tunnels & Trolls, Stormbringer has a nice addition of "Class Backgrounds." Wouldn't take a lot to play Conan with this game.

For OGL Conan, I don't think there is a big problem with building a character up level by level. I would like to see a faster method of adding levels, and may have to figure it out for myself. If anyone has already done this, let me know, don't hog it to yourself.

Now if we could do something about those abilities (Size, Power, and Wisdom), we might have even more in common. I know! Let's just make them all skills or something. :D
 
Its simple algebra

D20:

{(1d20+modifier)>=Target}

BRP:

{1d100<=(Target-modifier)}


Mechanically, they are the same. The difference is that personal skill levels are assessed in the modifier for D20 and they are assessed in the Target for BRP. Assessing them in the target is problematic, because they become completely hardwired. To put it another way:

D20:

modifier=personal
target=situational

BRP:

modifier=situational
target=personal
 
You get an A in math and system analysis Taharqa! Well done, I like that formula and particularly; modifier, personal, target, and situational. Eventually, formulas like yours, may be used to analyse RPG systems. Something to think about alright.
 
Here's something odd about OGL Conan 20th level characters. Perhaps some d20 expert can tell what's up with this. My problem came about when I was working on making some 4-8 level Soldiers/Borderers for a hit and run scenario. My mind wandered, as it does from time to time, and I began to wonder if it would be better to be a Soldier or Borderer. So I started to run the numbers. And came up with some interesting numbers. This is for 20th level characters. Let's say we are comparing a fight between twins, their modifiers balance out.

Barbarian: Base Attack +20, Best Defense (dodge) +15.
Base Def. 10 + 15 = 25. Roll 5 or better to hit twin, an 80% chance.

Borderer: Att. +20, Def. +10. 90% to hit.

Noble: Att. +15, Def. +10. 80%

Nomad: Att. +20, Def. +10. 90%

Pirate: Att. +15, Def. +15. 55%

Scholar: Att. +15, Def. +7. 95%

Soldier: Att. +20, Def. +15. 80%

Thief: Att. +15, Def. +10. 80% [edited to include Thief]

Except for the Pirate, hopefully you never meet your twin!

I know what you might say, armor and feats. But as I said, even steven, and no armor I'll add. It seems completely out of balance. Does anyone know the reason?
 
There are more letters in some of those than in others???

lol

What seems "unballanced" to you exactly? Thje fact that Nobles don't end up being as good at fighting as Soldiers or Barbarians? And what about Thieves?

I dont'get you line of reasoning here...
 
Actually, compared by the percentages, the following classes are equal.

Borderer: Att. +20, Def. +10. 90%
Nomad: Att. +20, Def. +10. 90%

Barbarian: Att. +20, Def. +15. 80%
Noble: Att. +15, Def. +10. 80%
Soldier: Att. +20, Def. +15. 80%
Thief: Att. +15, Def. +10. 80%

Pirate: Att. +15, Def. +15. 55% Has the least chance of hitting themselves.

Scholar: Att. +15, Def. +7. 95% Has the best chance of hitting themselves.

If you had a boat load of Pirates fighting amongst themselves, more would survive a round of fighting, than a boat load of Soldiers fighting amongst themselves. About 25% more pirates would survive the combat round.

I don't find this at all funny. Again, anybody really know what's going on?
 
dunderm, I think you're basically asking two different questions here, so I'll answer them as such.

1) Why is offence (BAB) better than defence (Dodge/Parry), i.e. why is it so easy for the twin to hit his brother?
Well, this is just the way d20 combat is set up; when you increase in level it will get easier and easier to hit an equal opponent. Basically, at high levels, your primary attack will almost always hit, while your secondary, tertiary and quaternary attacks perhaps won't be as lucky.
What balances against this is off course that you get more and more hit points as you level up. So, with increasing levels, you'll get hit more often but you can also soak up those hits. This is something that many people find very unrealistic - heck, I used to be one of them until I realised how well d20 combat works in play! :D
As I see it, the trick is to regard hit points as fatigue/combat capacity and not actual flesh wounds.

2) Why are different classes better at defence relative to their offence, i.e. why are different twin pairs better at hitting each other than others?
What you seem to be advocating is that defence should be completely correlated to offence, for example that defence should always be equal to BAB/2 or something (as for the Nomad and Borderer).
While that could absolutely have been one way to go (you would basically just have one "overall combat score"), Mongoose have for the Conan game chosen to add a little more variety so you get classes that are good offensively/bad defensively, good at both etc. etc. Furthermore, they've taken it one step further and divided defence into two; Dodge and Parry.
I dunno, I think I like it the way it is; gives rise to different sorts of tactics methinks. Haven't really thought about it all that hard, though.
 
Thanks Trodax! I completely didn't think of the hit points in that way. That makes all kinds of sense. Like a brick hit me in the face. All of a sudden I understand.

A little shakey about the class differences, but at least your perspective seems workable.

I think a book needs written by the designers, explaining more on why they designed the system as they did. Maybe this has already been done. The point is, inquiring minds want to know. Not all of us take everything on faith alone.

I appreciate your patience and thought in giving me these explainations Trodax, really shows your understanding and love of the game.
 
Here is a visualization of the process:

tohit.jpg


The two dimensions are offensive and defensive bonus. The color shading gives you the probability of a hit at any point. The lines give you the level progression in the to-hit probability comparing the different level progression schemes (by the top-end (20,15,10,7))
 
You're a genius Taharqa! Best graphing I've seen!

Do you want to be a Pirate now matey? Har, Har!


Seriously. If I had to play only a single class, I would choose Pirate. They have a nice selection of features they automatically get. Pick your skills carefully, and you have a good chance of making it to the top without multiclassing.
 
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