Sneak at Deus Vult for RQII
- Thread starter MongooseMatt
- Start date
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Beware of Wikipedia!
Their articles on Joachim of Fiore and on Joachites are some of the worst I have ever read!!!
It doesn't even mention the Nazis! Who are a very related topic to Joachite philosophy and Pan-Germanic national identity (especially the crazy stuff).
After all, the phrase "Third" Reich (and that it will last for a "Thousand Years") is not just simply pulled out of the hat for nothing... that relies on crazily-attributed and wildy-expanded Joachite concepts (that Joachim would have recoiled at), and the Medieval millenarian ideas behind the return of the Pseudo-Fredrick II.
Their articles on Joachim of Fiore and on Joachites are some of the worst I have ever read!!!
It doesn't even mention the Nazis! Who are a very related topic to Joachite philosophy and Pan-Germanic national identity (especially the crazy stuff).
After all, the phrase "Third" Reich (and that it will last for a "Thousand Years") is not just simply pulled out of the hat for nothing... that relies on crazily-attributed and wildy-expanded Joachite concepts (that Joachim would have recoiled at), and the Medieval millenarian ideas behind the return of the Pseudo-Fredrick II.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
Oh, the Nazis had a whole arm of government devoted to wacky ideas. Himmler was really into his pyramidology.
That said, there is a lot of 19th century material (some not at all crazy) that looks back to the Middle Ages trying to find all sorts of Germanic "roots".
As I mentioned in a previous post, the Norman Cohn book 'Pursuit of the Millennium' is a great overview of all sorts of Medieval heresies and odd millenarian movements of the period. It's a very entertaining read too.
That said, there is a lot of 19th century material (some not at all crazy) that looks back to the Middle Ages trying to find all sorts of Germanic "roots".
As I mentioned in a previous post, the Norman Cohn book 'Pursuit of the Millennium' is a great overview of all sorts of Medieval heresies and odd millenarian movements of the period. It's a very entertaining read too.
Mikko Leho
Mongoose
Lord High Munchkin said:
The beauty of Wikipedia is that you can correct this. In fact when I get home I am going to change a few things there. I am going to change many things. I am so going to change great many, many, many things.
Ah, yes. Nazis had many occult/mythological things incorporated to enhance their ideology. So many things were ripped from other cultures, too. For example the (in)famous swastika was in fact a sign of good fortune but it got changed a bit by adding the angle. The eagle was used by Roman legions... But now I am getting out of topic.Lord High Munchkin said:
Back on topic...
Now that I have read the whole sneak peak it makes me think of Dark Heresy but set in the more mythical version of our own history instead of 40 000 years into the future.
But what is even more striking is that the text implies that characters are extremely competent in many fields of expertise. I just wonder how this works. If all are if not master but at least very competent fighters, know quite a lot of occultism and even handle poisons etc. Is there still room for teams of experts or are all characters more or less similar? Or worse yet, is the fluff good and inspiring but actually characters are quite novice and in order to be good at something they must sacrifice (almost) all other skills or abilities?
Personally I wish to see very competent characters from the point where they are first created. It usually makes it more fun to run games as you don't have to think "wow, a Papal assassin with 30% in swords and 15% in poisoning, a real bad ass"
Besides competent characters allow really wide range of missions to be run.
The more I think of it the less it seems like fantasy X-Files but instead it reminds me of 24 or Spooks maybe with even more heavy handed tactics. The only thing that reminds me of the X-Files is the mentioned supernatural aspects but that is a fantasy game, after all
Now that I have read the whole sneak peak it makes me think of Dark Heresy but set in the more mythical version of our own history instead of 40 000 years into the future.
But what is even more striking is that the text implies that characters are extremely competent in many fields of expertise. I just wonder how this works. If all are if not master but at least very competent fighters, know quite a lot of occultism and even handle poisons etc. Is there still room for teams of experts or are all characters more or less similar? Or worse yet, is the fluff good and inspiring but actually characters are quite novice and in order to be good at something they must sacrifice (almost) all other skills or abilities?
Personally I wish to see very competent characters from the point where they are first created. It usually makes it more fun to run games as you don't have to think "wow, a Papal assassin with 30% in swords and 15% in poisoning, a real bad ass"
Besides competent characters allow really wide range of missions to be run.The more I think of it the less it seems like fantasy X-Files but instead it reminds me of 24 or Spooks maybe with even more heavy handed tactics. The only thing that reminds me of the X-Files is the mentioned supernatural aspects but that is a fantasy game, after all
SnowDog said:
That is exactly what you will get
I hope that i will also be able to play the "good guys" in that setting.
Fighting the christian faith that destoyed the old ways with their monotheist approach, and their political and business like institution called church, would be far more interesting than playing a fanatic church person.
I don´t like playing the bad guys.
And i hate to see another RPG in which pagan believes and witches are condemed as evil.
Fighting the christian faith that destoyed the old ways with their monotheist approach, and their political and business like institution called church, would be far more interesting than playing a fanatic church person.
I don´t like playing the bad guys.
And i hate to see another RPG in which pagan believes and witches are condemed as evil.
Of course you can play the good guys if you wish
As the game uses RQII you already have all the trappings to create other kind of characters than Deus Vult operatives.
Personally I like to play a fanatic occasionally (that's why I like Judge Dredd, as a comic and RPG, too).
I don't know how the material is actually written but I would see it more like propaganda to the characters. As a GM (or even a player) you can choose what is the truth or how literally you take this. Or if you begin your game as a fanatic what's stopping you playing towards a goal of your character's disillusionment? Ever since playing various cyberpunk games I have had no black and white only shades of gray in my games.
Frankly I see this more or less how Dark Heresy should have been but set to a fictive version of our own history instead of 41 millennium.
I don't want to get to the fight about "paganism" and witches because I suppose I agree with you mostly. But I won't let this get in the way of enjoying a game if it proves to be what I expect of it.
Anyway, I don't know about the setting any more than you do
As the game uses RQII you already have all the trappings to create other kind of characters than Deus Vult operatives.
Personally I like to play a fanatic occasionally (that's why I like Judge Dredd, as a comic and RPG, too).
I don't know how the material is actually written but I would see it more like propaganda to the characters. As a GM (or even a player) you can choose what is the truth or how literally you take this. Or if you begin your game as a fanatic what's stopping you playing towards a goal of your character's disillusionment? Ever since playing various cyberpunk games I have had no black and white only shades of gray in my games.
Frankly I see this more or less how Dark Heresy should have been but set to a fictive version of our own history instead of 41 millennium.
I don't want to get to the fight about "paganism" and witches because I suppose I agree with you mostly. But I won't let this get in the way of enjoying a game if it proves to be what I expect of it.
Anyway, I don't know about the setting any more than you do
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
It would be a stretch too far perhaps to have a "Medieval" setting (even a pseudo-historical one) where the Pagans were anything but the baddies... after all that's what most Europeans actively thought at the time.
Osentalka said:
SnowDog said:
You are in luck
If you want to play a fanatical Warrior of God, Deus Vult certainly lets you do that. And you can go a long, long way on this alone. However, for players who like more 'thinky' games, we wanted to add more than this.
You will see there are moral questions abounding in this game, a constant battle between what is necessary and what is 'right'. The guiding phrase for this game is 'by any means necessary', and players have to think about what that might actually mean.
On the one hand, the Church is right - there are terrifying dangers all around, threatening to destroy humanity and the Church's 'good' order. On the other, how far do you go in defeating this danger? At what point do your actions become worse than the danger itself?
For example, if an entire village has been under the thrall of a local warlock, Church doctrine (as far as your Order goes) may call for the eradication of everyone in that settlement to wipe out the taint, the players rigging things so it looks like brigands did the evil deed. But are you really going to fire an entire village, just to keep a secret? Perhaps a young boy has been possessed by a demon, that is already responsible for the deaths of dozens, and exorcism cannot work. Are you morally justified in killing the child to end the possession? It is the easy thing to do, certainly, and it may be the surest. But is it _right_? Is there a better way, however more difficult and risky?
The game does not give you the answers to these questions, just what the Church expects you to do. But ultimately, the Church primarily wants results - what actually happens is up to you and the moral compass of your character.
Lord High Munchkin
Mongoose
I tend to think that the fact that there is even a moral choice is partly what divides this setting from a "historically-based" one into a "fantasy" one.
People in the past largely didn't think as we do, they would have likely even slaughtered all the farm animals and burnt the lot "just to make sure" the "evil" was gone.
As to pretending that bandits did it, why bother? The village strongly displeased the authorities and merely got what was coming to them. It happened many, many times; end of story.
People in the past largely didn't think as we do, they would have likely even slaughtered all the farm animals and burnt the lot "just to make sure" the "evil" was gone.
As to pretending that bandits did it, why bother? The village strongly displeased the authorities and merely got what was coming to them. It happened many, many times; end of story.
Just for the sake of argument. Do you really see the past cultures as black and white that they would not even think if this or that was right or wrong if some authority just said that something is right or wrong?
I am pretty sure that in every culture so far have had their own individualists even though populations by large have been "sheeps". So, I would not use this as an argument if this is "fantasy" or "historically based". On the other hand using a Deus Vult organization alone makes this at least alternate history. But does it matter to which category the setting belongs?
I am pretty sure that in every culture so far have had their own individualists even though populations by large have been "sheeps". So, I would not use this as an argument if this is "fantasy" or "historically based". On the other hand using a Deus Vult organization alone makes this at least alternate history. But does it matter to which category the setting belongs?
