Smuggling

[Kaelic]

Something that has always felt ambiguous in the core rules (and still in v2) is dealing with illegal goods. The price and such seems easy to handle, but what are the explicit rules for the risks they're taking? What rolls and circumstances must the Travellers go through to actually smuggle? The referee could build a narrative around it, but as it's so insanely profitable to smuggle, the team could just continue to do it.

If there were more explicit rules with risks (such as continuously smuggling in the same area, causing increased chance of being caught), it would make it a more interesting risk/reward to participate in. Something like basic security checks, random cargo inspections, etc.

Additionally, it seems far too trivial to offload illegal goods on the planet itself. This is something that is very complicated to do in reality. Perhaps a mechanic built around the law level of the planet.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Do referees need written rules for the how and why of arresting Travellers?

For solo player games, I can see lots of percentage charts thrown in to make rolls on. That's what the 3rd-party game producers will supply.

 

[alex_greene]

This is actually to be discussed in greater detail in the forthcoming Central Supply Catalogue. But the risks and rewards of illegal goods trading are outlined on page 219 in the Trade section, and you'll have to go to the Law Levels section in the next chapter for the punishments.

Also, when dealing in contraband, Broker skill is not used - you will need Streetwise skill.

 

[Kaelic]

Do referees need written rules for the how and why of arresting Travellers?

I think I outlined quite well why written rules are good here. Narrative can't solve every single smuggling operation, referee hand of god can frustrate players, rules can be fair and risky.

 

[Kaelic]

But the risks and rewards of illegal goods trading are outlined on page 219 in the Trade section

It says "if the trader is caught". How is a trader caught? At what point?

 

[Kaelic]

Also, when dealing in contraband, Broker skill is not used - you will need Streetwise skill.

Just hire a local guide, and you don't need to bother with skills (ever). Can you not use the hired Broker for contraband as well? It explicitly says you can for a guide.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Do referees need written rules for the how and why of arresting Travellers?

I think I outlined quite well why written rules are good here. Narrative can't solve every single smuggling operation, referee hand of god can frustrate players, rules can be fair and risky.

A referee is not needed if there are standard operating procedures written down for every crime type acted on. NPCs aren't needed either. Players just roll on the chart.

 

[Kaelic]

Do referees need written rules for the how and why of arresting Travellers?

I think I outlined quite well why written rules are good here. Narrative can't solve every single smuggling operation, referee hand of god can frustrate players, rules can be fair and risky.

A referee is not needed if there are standard operating procedures written down for every crime type acted on.

So...you're advocating no additional rules to help a referee out...why exactly? Because everyone should run a game like you?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

A referee is not needed if there are standard operating procedures written down for every crime type acted on.

So...you're advocating no additional rules to help a referee out...why exactly? Because everyone should run a game like you?

Every referee should handle those situations differently, rather than players already knowing what their chances are of getting caught. Did the players have rules for smuggling in the first place? Why would a ref need rules for counter-smuggling?

NPCs are the key to all this.

 

[Kaelic]

The problem with your approach is players could buy illegal goods and attempt to sell them over and over, requiring the Referee to constantly design conflicts around this. Sometimes it's nice to rely on random-ness to deal with it.

Traveller already handles random things with:
- Bounty encounters
- Starport encounters
- Animal encounters
- Patron encounters
- Random worlds
- Random trade goods
- Random purchase/sale value
etc etc

Asking for a table to cover random Customs encounters (considering DMs for law level or whatever) isn't much of a step further, and frankly fills a gap in the system that has optional tables covering just about everything else.

If YOU don't like it, you can choose not to use it. Just like you don't have to use the dozens of other random tables in the book. However, other people would benefit from this I feel.

 

[alex_greene]

Can you not use the hired Broker for contraband as well? It explicitly says you can for a guide.

But finding a guide who will deal with illegal goods requires Streetwise.

 

[alex_greene]

But the risks and rewards of illegal goods trading are outlined on page 219 in the Trade section

It says "if the trader is caught". How is a trader caught? At what point?

At pages 231-233 of the Core Rulebook, under the section titled "Law Level" and the subsection "The Law and Travellers."

 

[vladthemad]

On the very first page of the Trade section it literally says to hand the entire trade chapter over to your players and let them run the trade minigame without the referee. That kind of invalidates any argument that a referee should just figure it out and that no more rule expansion or clarification is needed. If it's going to be a generally hands off (for the referee) affair, the rules most definitely need to be explicite and concise.

 

[alex_greene]

What's stopping the referee from picking up the rules and playing the trade game himself?

 

[Anonymous]

What's stopping the referee from picking up the rules and playing the trade game himself?

That this referee hates trade!

HAHAHAHAHAHA :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

I am more than happy to let my players run the trade. They are definitely better at it than I am!

For some reason, some of what's posted above implies that players are dumb or can't be trusted, maybe that's just my reading, not the posters intent. I trust my players, if they cheat for one, I don't take it personally and for two, it's themselves they're cheating, this is role playing, there are no winners!

 

[Kaelic]

Look, smuggling rules are vague and not very solid. Rest of the game is. Please consider a more clear process.

That is all. Done trying to support this playtest now.

 

[-Daniel-]

That is all. Done trying to support this playtest now.

Please don't do that. We need all the voices we can get. I don't agree with every person who posts, but I enjoy when they make me think and when I need to articulate why I think what I am thinking.

 

[Kaelic]

People posting links to rules, and claiming things are fine in response to a thread are not adding anything to the discussion. They are attempting to shut down discussion and prevent improvements to MgT as they seem to believe it's totally fine.

 

[-Daniel-]

People posting links to rules, and claiming things are fine in response to a thread are not adding anything to the discussion. They are attempting to shut down discussion and prevent improvements to MgT as they seem to believe it's totally fine.

I would just keep in mind that while there maybe some like that, others want to hear various points of view and the most important person, msprange, clearly wants as many of us to read, try, and comment.

 

[Kaelic]

I'll stick it out now that I know who the author is and he's open to listen.