Small Detail?


I was reading the Core Rulebook, and there was a fact in the Magnamund History section that confused me.

It states that Darklord Vashna killed 3 other Darklords (or maybe 2, but it said the number dropped from 20-17). It gives no identification to the victims either.

In the Legends series, it states that Gnaag killed Unc and Ghurch shortly before assuming the Archlordship.

I can't find anywhere in the gamebooks that mention either of these events. I am trying to establish what is "true" and what is not? As far as I am converned, the gamebooks are "true". The Legends Series and the RPG are "altered truth", but Dever still had veto power over everything in the RPG right? I know that he and John Grant did not get along (read: Epilogue to Sacrifice of Ruanon) very well, but what about August Hahn and Joe? Is this new history presented in the Core Rulebook meant to supplant the histories presented in the gamebooks/Companion?

Sorely confused here...
one theory that has been introduced in other threads was that naar can bring back the darklords if he wishes, however, if they fail him, he probably doesnt wish
as you are open to legends, i have one other suggestion. I'm pretty sure that the darklords actually had a vote in either Eclipse of the Kai or The Dark Door Opens, that ended with Vonotar being considered a darklord by naar's avatars. this coupled with the fact that xagash are referred to as "lesser darklords" made me think of one idea : perhaps the darklords are 20 powerful xagash that have proven themselves? I don't personally see much merit in the idea (particularly as i cant quite remember much about that meeting involving vonotar) but the statementdoes pose potential for inspiration at least

i like the idea that gnaag pitted unc and ghurch against one another, it really proved his cunning stratagems, the profiles of the darklords in the Darklands sourcebook seems to support this as well
well thanks for hearing me out atleast, id like to here more comments on the xagash theory too :D
Not so sure I am on board with the Xagash idea. I like to think of them as creatures that were created by the Darklords to be just a powerful and ruthless as they are, but ultimately were not as succesful.

In the Darklands sourcebook, it lists stats and info on all the Darklords except Vashna because we know he is dead. It also refers to them as if they are still alive in MS 5000.

I remember in book 10, there is a passage that states that Darklords Chlanzor and Kraagenskul were defeated and sent back to Cragmantle to "lick their wounds". Since this makes them seem killable, this passage always made me wonder if the two that were slain during the period of civil war (books 6-8) were simply killed by heroes on the battlefield.

Still, can't make up my mind. I still want to use the story from the Tellings as source here.

Any other ideas? I'd love to hear them...
Anonymous said:
I remember in book 10, there is a passage that states that Darklords Chlanzor and Kraagenskul were defeated and sent back to Cragmantle to "lick their wounds".

I took this to mean that their armies were defeated, not them personally. I'm pretty sure that it was metaphorical.

Given the choice between taking the RPG as canon, or taking the Legends as canon, I'd go with the RPG every time. Sunlord is right that these events are not mentioned in the gamebooks.

It's also been stated that the Darklords can be revived by Naar, so it's possible that both of these events took place.

I agree, I prefer the RPG over the Legends but this detail is covered drastically differently in all three series'.

Legends: Unc and Ghurch are killed by Gnaag after Haakon is killed by Lone Wolf.

RPG: Vashna kills 2 and one other is killed. no mention of who they are.

Gamebooks: All we really know is that Lone Wolf kills Zagarna, Haakon, Kraagenskul, Taktaal and Gnaag. The only others that are mentioned are Chlanzor (book 10), Slutar (book 14) and Dakushna (book 15).
Here's what August had to say on the subject:

Mongoose August said:
This question is covered in another thread, but for completeness' sake, I will explain here:

Essentially, there is a disparity of sorts between the notes and sources the RPG is based on and the numbers involved. This is really not a problem, as it is one of Naar's explicit powers to be able to spawn and even ressurrect minions not directly slain by divinities or agents of divinities other than himself.

Thus, there is no real paradox as Naar could simply (and as far as the author is concerned did) bring back Darklords once other Darklords slew them. Odds are, this happened ~constantly~ in the early years of the Darklands as the Darklords jockeyed for position. Odds are each death took its toll on their powers to the point where the Darklords agreed silently not to kill each other any more... unless it suited their needs.

After all, if one considers the non-chalant way Gnaag takes the death of Taktaal in the throne room of Helgedad, it could easily be seen that Gnaag assumed his 'brother' would return soon. If they were really deathless beings from which obvilion was inescapable, he would probably have taken the annihilation of a 'loyal' Darklord a LOT harder.

Just a thought,
Mongoose August said:
Raethryn, first thank you much for your kind words.

Second, the two Darklords killed by Vasha is a note taken directly from the source material I had to work with and othe rnotes found along the way to researching the book. It was my assumption (and nothing was ever revealed to prove or disprove it) that they were either two existing Darklords rebirthed by Naar or two unnamed Darklords repleaced after their demise.

It appears that, at least in the time before Lone Wolf, Naar took a very direct hand in the lives/deaths of the Darklords and was fully capable of bringing them back time and again as long as they were not slain by an "act of the Light" such as Ulnar and the Sommerswerd.

Because I did not have any direct answers, I chose the path of least resistance and simply noted what I had uncovered. If it really bothers you that the number is inconsistent (and it is, I agree), take the option I have personally and assume that the two were Haakon and Zagarna (both of whom were then brought back by Naar after torment in the Dark and watched carefully by Vashna thereafter).

I did not mention this in the book because I wanted to leave it to Games Master interpretation. When in doubt, I like to leave things as open as I can to give you judges more room to work with.

I am at least happy you liked the Prophecy.