sleep tubes and batteries and mothballed ships

HalC

Banded Mongoose
Hi All,
Just curious - what is the LONGEST any one individual can stay in cold berth absent a power plant? Does Cold berth require temperature control to the extent for example, that one could remove a person from cold berth and place them in a cold temperature cave whose temperature remains constantly cold?

Moving along - could a cold berth be kept operational despite a ship being placed in what is effectively a mothballed status?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Heck, speaking of mothballing - how precisely does one moth ball a star ship?

;)
 
HalC said:
Hi All,
Just curious - what is the LONGEST any one individual can stay in cold berth absent a power plant? Does Cold berth require temperature control to the extent for example, that one could remove a person from cold berth and place them in a cold temperature cave whose temperature remains constantly cold?

Moving along - could a cold berth be kept operational despite a ship being placed in what is effectively a mothballed status?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Heck, speaking of mothballing - how precisely does one moth ball a star ship?

;)


I strongly suspect a low berth it doesn’t work when unpowered, but will contain emergency batteries. If it’s cryogenic, vacuum temperature should be fine, but who knows shown the rest of it works, and the effect of pressure?

To store a boat, drain everything, flush and clean everything, do a full service, shut everything down, take out all the batteries (fire risk), valuables, documents, anything that will rot including furniture upholstery, seal everything with the storage plugs (edit: omg not the drainage holes of course!), put a cloth over it and check it monthly. Could not tell you how to store for years but how different can it be apart from doing annual services?
 
At present, I'm attempting to determine what "1 power" is equivalent to in real terms. As best as I can tell, a single low berth requires 1/10th of a power, since you can power up 10 low berths for 1 energy. It seems a bit odd that an emergency low berth requires a full power, but can only handle four occupants, but that's just small change over all.

All in all, for my intended scenario, It looks that if I want it to be possible in a Mongoose Traveller campaign, that I will need to utilize solar panels as a powering source for low berth or series of low berths.

The story line involves a drifting hulk that has solar panels installed from its cargo hold (was carrying materials for starting a colony somewhere). The survivors of the thing that stranded them where they are, will be deep asleep in low berth tubes, and a single set of tubes will be of the highest quality that money can buy (improving the revival chances of its occupants). How many survivors that can be salvaged from the hull will be relatively random, but the cargo of the accompanying freighter will contain sufficient material to start a colony for almost 10,000 people.

Three ships, three floating hulks, and no explanation as to why. What would you do with such a situation?

Research/research/research - always research everything before setting the scenario in motion right? ;)
 
What are Imperial space salvage laws?

Was the ship abandoned? (It's probably yours now unless a government or military vessel)

Low Berth survivors means maybe it wasn't abandoned. Maybe the survivors legally will reposses it when awakened, and you are owed a rescue fee?

Do your player respect these laws?

How strict are they enforced? Are your actions crossing into actual piracy if the ship is not counted as abandoned? Piracy is death sentence in 3I, I think.
 
HalC said:
At present, I'm attempting to determine what "1 power" is equivalent to in real terms.

If we compare sizes with CT/MT, 1 Power seems to be about 5-10 MW.

At about 1 kW/m² available insolation, that is a whole lot of solar panels...
 
You could set up a donkey engine, or just enough solar panelling to cover factor one thruster requirements plus basic energy, so theoretically about zero point three energy points per tonne.
 
HalC said:
It seems a bit odd that an emergency low berth requires a full power, but can only handle four occupants, but that's just small change over all.
Emergency Low weighs and costs half as much per person than normal Low Berths, which is generally more of a limiting factor than power.
My take is that Emergency Low has more automation on the assumption that if it's in use, the entire crew may be in there and unable to monitor the systems and correct problems. Possibly some automatic powerplant controls so it can mantain the ship in a low-power state.
 
Use the Powering down rules on page 144 of the core book. Cut the Basic Power by half, shut the maneuver engine off and any other system you won't be using from inside a low berth. The remaining power is used to calculate how much the plant is throttled back then calculate how much time the remaining fuel will last.
 
Reynard said:
Use the Powering down rules on page 144 of the core book. Cut the Basic Power by half, shut the maneuver engine off and any other system you won't be using from inside a low berth. The remaining power is used to calculate how much the plant is throttled back then calculate how much time the remaining fuel will last.

Question then becomes one of "How long can the power plant function without maintenance?"

;)
 
HalC said:
Question then becomes one of "How long can the power plant function without maintenance?"

Not long, see Poor Maintenance, Core p145:
If maintenance is skipped or skimped on, roll 2D each subsequent month, with a DM equal to the number of months skipped. On 8+, the ship suffers a critical hit. Roll 2D on the Poor Maintenance table and apply the effects.
 
One month? How did virus survive? Robots everywhere? Where are they all? Never seen a bot on a PC ship in core. (Mind you, I haven't seen many Traveller products).

EDIT: Mongoose repair drones.
 
Humans think AI are superior because they don't age, and have metal bodies with mechanical strength and precision.

AI think humans are superior because they have their own bodies and can just throw spears at mammoths if all the power stations break.
 
See - here's the thing.

I started out with Classic Traveller back in the stone age. We didn't even have desk top publishing when Traveller first came out, let alone PDF's. When they finally unearthed my birth certificate clay tablets, they still translated the date wrong because the dust had gotten into the cracks of the lettering - well, never mind. Long story short, the STORY element depends on what is or is not possible in the Traveller game systems. Ever wonder what happens when a fusion power plant fails to contain the magnetic bottle? Ever wonder how much energy a given power plant of a given size puts out? What if you wanted an uninterruptable power supply for your cold berth? Does your game system have RTG's for use as a back up power source that doesn't require maintenance? Can a power plant be designed which is SELF-MAINTAINING (all caps as part of the attention grabbing marketing strategy)?

Half the fun when you're the GM, is taking the material on what is possible, and finding ways to put things to use that the author of the book never envisioned. How many remember FIRE, FUSION & STEEL? Me? I like looking at a scenario possibility and seeing "how do I make a STORY emerge out of that?". For example - there was a little throw away item from the DENEB write up that I thought was really interesting. I also thought "how do I make this work?". Imagine if you will, a really powerful family of Imperial Nobles being brought low and hunted out of existence during a civil war. Now imagine TWO people making it out of that bloodbath that destroyed the family as a whole, but a lot of assets that were hidden, or a lot of loyalties kept to a minimum.

What happened to the two who got away? What if they survived of sorts, by jumping out-system and always refueling on the sly? What if they carefully made their way system by system out of Deneb and into the Spinward Marches? What if - they were planning on "pocket empiring" as it were (to turn a phrase and using T4's POCKET EMPIRE rules) such that the colony transport arrived, but the noble family failed to arrive? What if that world the colony landed upon was Trexalon in the District 268 sub-sector? What if the two who got away were floating about somewhere - waiting to be found while in cold berth sleep - sleep that has lasted almost 300 years?

Problem is? Can I get someone to have survived cold sleep for 300 years? Do I "need" cold fusion power plants or can I use RTG (Radio-thermal generators)? GURPS allows me to do that and much more. I'm betting that Fire Fusion & Steel would permit it. I'm not so certain that CT would permit it nor would say, any of the other game systems (Not sure about T20, T5.1, or Mongoose).

So - can it be done? How much energy is 1 power point? .1 Power Points? That someone was kind enough to say "based on other game systems, in MgT it is probably this..." and made an effort to convert from one game system something that seems to be lacking in another game system. I'm ALL for that mentality by the way. When something is missing, jump in and figure it out so it works for your own game world.

Sooooooooo....

The challenge now becomes one of "how do we make this work?". If it can be done, great! :) If it can't be done - well, MAKE it work *teasing grin*.

RTG's are possible today. No moving parts, no real maintenance required, and the energy that comes out is relatively steady. How long will those last is the question. How about solar panels? If one can hook some up, knowing that over time, those panels are going to degrade (micro-debris etc), then perhaps there is a ticking clock here. Maybe there is a HARD medical + Int roll to be made to stabilize the patient before the medic can even HOPE to revive them. So maybe another HARD medical+Edu roll is necessary. Stories are DRAMA, keeping things where the players are on the edge of their seats. Finding a derelict ship, 300 years old, made of the finest craftsmanship because the money in the family is good - makes for a satisfying story. Having a ship whose doors are vacuum welded shut, whose electronics are growing brittle, and whose entire system might last a single jump, or just might not - THAT can get the players rolling their dice and praying they come up hot.

In the vein of "what would you do for a Klondike bar" kind of thing...

"What would you do for a Pocket Empire?" in district 268? Hell, why not make it the outskirts of the Trojan Reaches? If Kahn could survive, why not a noble household? ;)

Well, first we gotta nail down that thing called internal self-consistency darn it! ;)
 
Internal consistiency is not Mongoose's strong point. Their game's strong points (IMO) are source books/adventures, art (compared to FFE), and that it plays well out of the box for single adventures (campaigns can run into consistency problems). If you wish strong internal consistency, there are other Traveller versions.

I'm looking at the diagram of an RTG in the wikipedia article, and they do indeed claim that it has no moving parts. However I see in the diagram a pressure relief valve and a gas cooling system. As with all things, while the individual components might be discussed in isolation, they require support systems, and other systems to integrate them together, and all that adds considerably to their complexity.
 
According to NASA, the RTG's (each putting out 157watts of power, for 470 watts @ launch) will continue to function with sufficient power until 2020, when the output of the RTG's will degraded to questionable power levels. RTG's using plutonium simply would not function that long. So the power supply would have to be something that isn't based on today's physics, which when talking about Grandfather & jump drives, it's within the realm of the discussion.

"... The RTGs used a radioactive source (Plutonium-238 in the form of plutonium oxide, or PuO2, in this case) which, as it decayed, gave off heat. A bi-metallic thermoelectric device was used to convert the heat to electric power for the spacecraft. The total output of RTGs slowly decreases with time as the radioactive material is expended. Therefore, although the initial output of the RTGs on Voyager was approximately 470 W of 30 V DC power at launch, it had fallen off to approximately 335 W by the beginning of 1997 (about 19.5 years post-launch). As power continues to decrease, power loads on the spacecraft must also decrease. Current estimates (1998) are that increasingly limited instrument operations can be carried out at least until 2020." - https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id=1977-076A
 
I'm sure traveller can build a long life powerplant if they really want to, but there is no need for a regular ship.
 
'Question then becomes one of "How long can the power plant function without maintenance?"'

Other question, how long can a powerplant operate without monitoring and necessary adjustments? These machines aren't smart or self reliant and rely on engineers to over watch functions and errors. Won't matter how long you can extend the power output if small glitches start cascading.
 
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