Skin Dancing - an idea?
- Thread starter Da Boss
- Start date
I think it's fine to allow it to keep up with the target ship. It is slipstreaming in the engine backwash of the capacitor flux coil subsystems or some such technobabble.
IMO it should retain its original orientation relative to the target ship. That is if it starts its skindance by touching the G'Vrahn's Port side, it should be placed on its Port side after the G'Vrahn's movement (even if it turns). This could lead to some interesting tactics, such as flying along the edge of an asteoid field trying toget the WS in the roids but staying outside yourself! :lol:
"There's a White Star on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim!"
IMO it should retain its original orientation relative to the target ship. That is if it starts its skindance by touching the G'Vrahn's Port side, it should be placed on its Port side after the G'Vrahn's movement (even if it turns). This could lead to some interesting tactics, such as flying along the edge of an asteoid field trying toget the WS in the roids but staying outside yourself! :lol:
"There's a White Star on the starboard bow, starboard bow, Jim!"
Well it still gives you immunity to the ship you are skindancing.katadder said:I have skindanced once and only with sheridens sqaudronit was amusing but really didnt help that much TBH as was fighting drakh with precise beams anyway.
But the point of this thread is, would you use it more often if the rules were changed to the above SA?
Yes it is quite bad. But if you succeed, it is quite good. Thats what balance is about: risk vs reward. IMO the risk of losing your firing is well balanced against the benefits of succeeding. Not in every case, and not against every enemy... but sometimes. That is the way it should be. Not a no-brainer, and not totally useless. Somewhere in between.katadder said:
Well a non-1 failure is no longer a "crash" at all, it is just a miss. The WS is not destroyed, and it does no damage because it didn't crash into the target. It just tried to skin dance, but overshot or flew too far off the back, or the target moved out the way.katadder said:
It is currently only used to ram with crippled WS because failing he roll is easier than passing a ram SA. That is quite unacceptable IMO. Skin dancing should be used to skin dance, not to try to ram as a last resort.
Can you think of any more constructive ways to make skin dancing a proper game tactic? It is used at least twice in the show, so really should be a signature move of the White Star.
it could work as you say, but if they fail they actually end up overshooting the target so have their backs to the ship they tried to skindance, this would leave them out of position but still able to fire if there is anything in their front arc.
still crash on a 1 like you say, but still also cause the damage from a crash. this afterall reduces it from a no brainer ramming tactic to a 1in6 if you fail ramming tactics which is harder than normal ramming for a WS as they have 1 in 3 to actually ram. also if you fail and dont get the ram you wanted you have your back to a potentially devastating attack.
still crash on a 1 like you say, but still also cause the damage from a crash. this afterall reduces it from a no brainer ramming tactic to a 1in6 if you fail ramming tactics which is harder than normal ramming for a WS as they have 1 in 3 to actually ram. also if you fail and dont get the ram you wanted you have your back to a potentially devastating attack.
I think the drawbacks to your suggestion aren't bad enough. Having your back to one ship, which potentially hasn't even had its movement yet or might not even have rear weapons, is hardly any risk. If it were changed to that then skin dancing would be too powerful.
How about if you fail, you do skin dance the target, but don't avoid its weapons. ie you fly right over the weapon mountings. So you skin dance as usual, but the target can also fire all of their weapons at you.
1 = crash and burn still, and yes it does damage, we never said otherwise
How about if you fail, you do skin dance the target, but don't avoid its weapons. ie you fly right over the weapon mountings. So you skin dance as usual, but the target can also fire all of their weapons at you.
1 = crash and burn still, and yes it does damage, we never said otherwise
Burger said:I think the drawbacks to your suggestion aren't bad enough. Having your back to one ship, which potentially hasn't even had its movement yet or might not even have rear weapons, is hardly any risk. If it were changed to that then skin dancing would be too powerful.
How about if you fail, you do skin dance the target, but don't avoid its weapons. ie you fly right over the weapon mountings. So you skin dance as usual, but the target can also fire all of their weapons at you.
1 = crash and burn still, and yes it does damage, we never said otherwise
I'd rather we went back to not being able to fire at all...
By you, maybe. But I would use it. You are not the only ISA player, and in fact seem to disagree with the majority. So saying it would never be used is just silly. You can't see the future, or tell everyone else what to do.
"I would never use it"... fair enough, your opinion, you're entitled to it.
"It would never be used"... WRONG! And arrogant to say that.
"I would never use it"... fair enough, your opinion, you're entitled to it.
"It would never be used"... WRONG! And arrogant to say that.
but you said no one uses the current one apart from for suicide, whereas I have, so therefore your opinion is also wrong
also you would use an ability that has a 50/50 chance of leaving you not firing, and also a 1 in 6 of crashing?
its probably the same reason i have never seen run silent used, as you dont get to fire and only 50/50 to gain the benefit.
also you would use an ability that has a 50/50 chance of leaving you not firing, and also a 1 in 6 of crashing?
its probably the same reason i have never seen run silent used, as you dont get to fire and only 50/50 to gain the benefit.
Depending on the situation, yes. Sometimes. Not always, and not never. Which is how it should be.katadder said:
But in this case the benefits are pretty meagre, and the CQ check is hard. The stealth you gain isn't really much, and being unable to fire whether you pass or fail is a big limitation on its usefulness. Run Silent isn't a special action you would use in tournaments or one-off games, maybe in some campaign scenaarios such as convoy duty.katadder said:
Skin Dancing V 3 
CQ Check : 9 (fighters roll a D6 and succeed on a 5+)
Skin Dancing may be only be attempted by Blue Stars, White Stars, White Star II's, all Minbari fighters, Shials and White Star Fighters. This an exception to the rule that fighters can not attempt Special Actions
A ship may attempt to skin dance one other enemy ship by moving its base into conact with the enemy ships base. You may not skin dance against fighters.
Make an immediate CQ check (fighters roll a D6 and need 5+).
This roll is modified as follows:
The Target is a Space Station +2
If the target Ship has the Lumbering trait or is adrift / running adrift +1
If the target ship has Agile and/or Dodge trait or is SM -1
Each fighter on close escort will block one skindancing attempt by a fighter (they enter a dogfight) or give a -1 to the CQ check if against a ship.
If a fighter subsequently attempts to engage a skin dancing enemy fighter or ship they must roll 5+ with the same effects of failure as a skin dancing fighter or ship - (note the roll of a 1 means that the fighter rams the ship that is being skindanced)! Success means that the fighter can either dogfight the enemy fighter (whihc is no longer counted as skin dancing) or attack the skin dancing ship as normal
If the Unmodified roll is a 1 your ship is destroyed as it ploughs into the hull of the target. (as per present rules). If a fighter or ship crashes into a ship this attack may not be dodged or intercepted. Roll 1AD with Double damage if a fighter and as many AD as starting damge if a ship.
If the CQ is unsuccessful but you messed up. Remain where you are on the table, you may be shot by the enemy, and can't fire any weapons yourself. You may still use defensive systems such as dodge, stealth and interceptors. Fighters may dogfight as normal if subsequently engaged.
If you succeed you have successfully skin danced and will remain in contact with the attacked ship for the rest of the turn - even if it moves. This movement can exceed the skin dancing ships normal movement. Place your ship in base to base contact with the target ship, retaining your original orientataion unless the target ship subsequently moves, in which case match its orientation.
If the targeted ship enters terrain, for instance an asteroid field, the terrain effects both vessels normally.
The targeted ship may not use Antifighter or Advanced Antifighter or Fire its own weapons on the skin dancing craft - although other ships may use weapons with either the precise or Accurate trait to target them.
The skin dancing ship may only attack the ship it is in contact with and may use any and all weapons, regardless of arcs. It ignores the interceptor trait.
If the targeted Ship explodes add D6 AD to the attack roll for the explosion to simulate the diffiuclty of escaping the explosiong at such close quarters.
Like / hate - more importantly - is is something people would use?
CQ Check : 9 (fighters roll a D6 and succeed on a 5+)
Skin Dancing may be only be attempted by Blue Stars, White Stars, White Star II's, all Minbari fighters, Shials and White Star Fighters. This an exception to the rule that fighters can not attempt Special Actions
A ship may attempt to skin dance one other enemy ship by moving its base into conact with the enemy ships base. You may not skin dance against fighters.
Make an immediate CQ check (fighters roll a D6 and need 5+).
This roll is modified as follows:
The Target is a Space Station +2
If the target Ship has the Lumbering trait or is adrift / running adrift +1
If the target ship has Agile and/or Dodge trait or is SM -1
Each fighter on close escort will block one skindancing attempt by a fighter (they enter a dogfight) or give a -1 to the CQ check if against a ship.
If a fighter subsequently attempts to engage a skin dancing enemy fighter or ship they must roll 5+ with the same effects of failure as a skin dancing fighter or ship - (note the roll of a 1 means that the fighter rams the ship that is being skindanced)! Success means that the fighter can either dogfight the enemy fighter (whihc is no longer counted as skin dancing) or attack the skin dancing ship as normal
If the Unmodified roll is a 1 your ship is destroyed as it ploughs into the hull of the target. (as per present rules). If a fighter or ship crashes into a ship this attack may not be dodged or intercepted. Roll 1AD with Double damage if a fighter and as many AD as starting damge if a ship.
If the CQ is unsuccessful but you messed up. Remain where you are on the table, you may be shot by the enemy, and can't fire any weapons yourself. You may still use defensive systems such as dodge, stealth and interceptors. Fighters may dogfight as normal if subsequently engaged.
If you succeed you have successfully skin danced and will remain in contact with the attacked ship for the rest of the turn - even if it moves. This movement can exceed the skin dancing ships normal movement. Place your ship in base to base contact with the target ship, retaining your original orientataion unless the target ship subsequently moves, in which case match its orientation.
If the targeted ship enters terrain, for instance an asteroid field, the terrain effects both vessels normally.
The targeted ship may not use Antifighter or Advanced Antifighter or Fire its own weapons on the skin dancing craft - although other ships may use weapons with either the precise or Accurate trait to target them.
The skin dancing ship may only attack the ship it is in contact with and may use any and all weapons, regardless of arcs. It ignores the interceptor trait.
If the targeted Ship explodes add D6 AD to the attack roll for the explosion to simulate the diffiuclty of escaping the explosiong at such close quarters.
Like / hate - more importantly - is is something people would use?
Taran said:Burger said:I think the drawbacks to your suggestion aren't bad enough. Having your back to one ship, which potentially hasn't even had its movement yet or might not even have rear weapons, is hardly any risk. If it were changed to that then skin dancing would be too powerful.
How about if you fail, you do skin dance the target, but don't avoid its weapons. ie you fly right over the weapon mountings. So you skin dance as usual, but the target can also fire all of their weapons at you.
1 = crash and burn still, and yes it does damage, we never said otherwise
I'd rather we went back to not being able to fire at all...
For those who haven't been following that closely or didn't notice, this was a refence to Burger's first suggestion on this thread about the consequences of failure of SkinDancing. A suggestion that was iminently preferable to this latest one.
