Simple wealth rules for Conan.

[Jotenbjorn]

I hate having to track every silver piece a character has, so I was trying to adapt the D20 Modern wealth system to Conan and I ended up with this instead. What do you think?

Wealth Level

Instead of tracking individual silver pieces, character wealth is represented by a wealth level. Characters may spend a set amount of silver pieces per day without impacting their wealth. Any purchase above their wealth reduces their wealth level by a number of points equal to the difference. For example, if you have a wealth level of 4 and spend 90 silver pieces (requiring a wealth of 6), your wealth level is reduced to two.

Silver Piece to Wealth calculator.

Too figure out what you can afford without impacting your wealth consult the following.
1 WP = 2 sp or less.
2 WP = 5 sp or less.
3 WP = 10 sp or less.
4 WP = 20 sp or less.
5 WP = 50 sp or less.
6 WP = 100 sp or less.
7 WP = 200 sp or less.
8 WP = 500 sp or less.
9 WP = 1,000 sp or less.
10 WP = 2,000 sp or less

Increasing Your Wealth Level

To increase your wealth level you must spend money. The cost to increase your wealth by one point is the same amount it would cost to purchase the most expensive item that would reduce your wealth to 0. For example, an item that costs 2,000 sp is the maximum cost of wealth level 10. Spending that kind of money would reduce a character with a wealth level of 5 all the way down to 0. Dedicating this amount specifically to increase his wealth level would increase his wealth level to 6. The character is now capable of spending 100 sp every day without impacting his wealth.

Saving Money

A character may attempt to save money in order to rise to a higher wealth level. Once a character declares he is doing this, his maximum silver pieces per day is reduced by 50%. The other 50% is put into a pot, the money in that pot can be used to purchase the next wealth level as detailed above once there is enough. Going above the 50% level even one time wipes out all of these savings.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I guess that works, other games handle wealth like that as well. Personally I'm a bit shy towards this manner of handling wealth as it is very "meta". Especially in a game where you have to lug your wealth around in physical form, be it silver, gold or gems.

 

[Supplement Four]

I guess that works, other games handle wealth like that as well. Personally I'm a bit shy towards this manner of handling wealth as it is very "meta". Especially in a game where you have to lug your wealth around in physical form, be it silver, gold or gems.

I agree. If you have a traditional adventuring party that is not anchored anywhere, then coin gets heavy quick.

Plus, as a GM, I like to keep a handle on wealth. Conan would be rich one story and then blow it all by the next. That's not a bad model to use for a traditional game.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

Perhaps it might be easier to set a percentage of wealth that they can ignore. Maybe 5%, so if they have 100 sp they don't need to bother recording a 5 sp purchase. Unless they abuse it of course.

 

[decker423]

Remember that there are money lenders who can serve as "banks" and thieves lurk in taverns looking for heavy ladden travellers. Also, if a merchant is of a different race, they can be biased against a player and raise the price of an item. Plenty of ways to take care of a PC's money.

 

[rabindranath72]

I think the OP's idea is fine, but I guess the crucial point is how often the characters would be required to purchase things.
Item shopping lists are something I never liked in S&S-type games. We do not see Conan nor Fafhrd nor Cugel going shopping! They either already have what they need, or start out broke etc. The protagonists acquire wealth to live by the day. The acquisition of wealth in fuzzy terms can become an objective in and of itself. I usually describe treasure only in terms of "huge piles of coins and jewels", rather than counting the last dime. When the game bogs down to an accounting exercise, it stops being S&S. This need to "free" characters from excessive money exists since the days of 1e AD&D, though I believe there is much space for improving and streamlining things. The old SAGA Dragonlance Companion had some interesting ideas on handling wealth, I will try to post later a possible adaptation for d20 Conan.

Cheers,

Antonio

 

[Supplement Four]

I like knowing that the players have two rubies, an emerald, and a silver cup that they've got to unload. It's less "gamey" and lends itself better to role playing.

First of course, are the barter situations one can get into: "Master, I'll give you this fine chain coat, the shield, and the water skin for the ruby."

"Wha? Do you mean to rob the food from the mouths of my children? Your ruby is small, it's quality uncertain. The chain coat for the ruby, but no more!"





Plus, with specific items, the GM can always get creative...

"Sir, you attempt to sell this silver cup, I see. We've had some thievery in the city of late, so I beg your pardons and ask, here, on the underside of the cup's base is a name inscribed...which one of you is Basil?"

 

[rabindranath72]

I like knowing that the players have two rubies, an emerald, and a silver cup that they've got to unload. It's less "gamey" and lends itself better to role playing.

First of course, are the barter situations one can get into: "Master, I'll give you this fine chain coat, the shield, and the water skin for the ruby."

"Wha? Do you mean to rob the food from the mouths of my children? Your ruby is small, it's quality uncertain. The chain coat for the ruby, but no more!"





Plus, with specific items, the GM can always get creative...

"Sir, you attempt to sell this silver cup, I see. We've had some thievery in the city of late, so I beg your pardons and ask, here, on the underside of the cup's base is a name inscribed...which one of you is Basil?"

Eh, the point is, there is nothing like that in the Conan or Fafhrd etc. stories. You can definitely run things that way, but IMO it will not "feel" like a Conan story.

 

[Supplement Four]

Eh, the point is, there is nothing like that in the Conan or Fafhrd etc. stories. You can definitely run things that way, but IMO it will not "feel" like a Conan story.

What? There certainly are barter scenes. I remember a quite funny one where Conan bargains in a bazaar for two loaves of bread, saying somethin like, "Woman! I'm not trying to buy your daughters and all your sons as well, I only want two loaves of bread!"

That's was a John Maddox Roberts story, IIRC.

But, even REH is always talking about Conan's wealth--what he got and how fast he spent it on his wine, his women, and his song.

I remember reading Robert Jordan's Conan tales with the barbarian finding a ruby as big as the first joint of his thumb.

And, Offutt wrote of the specific items Conan lifted on specific night in Arenjun.

There's a grand history of "specific" loot, REH included, but also with many other Conan writers (I can think of an L. Sprague de Camp tale too), and more than one Conan-in-the-bazaar-scene-bartering as well.

 

[decker423]

If you watch the first movie, you can also see (or remember) that he's spending money and giving it away for nothing. Conan's the kind of guy to live it up like a king and buy everyone in the bar a round or two if he's drunk. He may kill you later if you piss him off but he's generous with his wealth. The rules relfect this happy-go-lucky; here today, gone tomorrow lifestyle.

 

[Supplement Four]

The rules relfect this happy-go-lucky; here today, gone tomorrow lifestyle.

Agree that Conan has been characterized by the "here today, gone tomorrow" lifestyle. I even said that above. But, this can also be done if you know exactly how many coins a character carries.

I like to know what denomination they are and what country they're from. The dinars from Koth are worth 3/4 of a Silver Eagle from Corinthia.

Also remember that the "here today, gone tomorrow" lifestyle is characteristic of Conan, not of the Hyborian Age. Different people are different. Some are thrifty. Some are misers. Some are greedy.

If a player says, "As I ride into town, and reach into my saddlebag, grab a fist full of coins--I don't care which--and then toss them to the children following me and my horse," then that's fine. If need-be, I'll random roll which coins he happened to grab.

But, some players wants to know exactly which items he has: 42 silver Rakkas from Shem; A ruby the width and length of the first digit of his thumb, an opal necklace trimmed with platinum, and a pint sized beer mug, gem studded, with a specific coat of arms emblazoned on it.

To me, that lends itself better to role playing than glossing it over with "gamey" stuff like, "My character is wealth level 1, so I should be able to afford a room."

In my game, the character above could walk into an inn, order a leg of lamb, a pint of ale, and a room and woman for the night, then spill out his Shemmite Rakkas and try to pay for it.

As a GM, I might decide to play the barkeep saying, "He eyes the Shemmite coins as if they were cursed and says, 'We don't take them there type coins here, lad. Try up the street.'"

Now, we're role playing. His silver Rakkas are no good in this town. He doesn't want to part with the ruby--not yet. So, we're off to bartering.

Maybe the innkeep and use the mug?

(Or, maybe, a whole new adventure starts after the mug is taken and a certain someone sees the crest on the mug while in the inn.)

 

[Jotenbjorn]

I don't see why a character can't do that same thing without having to track every little coin. And I don't see the innkeeper not taking the coins, silver is silver. Coins have value based upon the metal and the weight, nobody gives a rat's ass whose face is on the coin.

 

[Supplement Four]

I don't see why a character can't do that same thing without having to track every little coin.

It's unlikely it will come up using the Wealth Level system. Things like that will be glossed over.

And I don't see the innkeeper not taking the coins, silver is silver. Coins have value based upon the metal and the weight, nobody gives a rat's ass whose face is on the coin.

Ah, but one of the northern city states of Shem is attempting to annex this little town the players have wandered into. It's a fued. Troops haven't been used yet, but it has been discussed in the Shemite courts.

Accepting the Shemite coin further binds the town to Shem. The politcals will argue, "Look, the place is already using our money standard!" The town attempts to disconnect from Shem on every level possible.

Besides, the last merchant who accepted Shemite coins was dragged behind a horse through the middle of town, his establishment burned. He barely survived, moving south, towards Shem.

People spat upon him as he left.

I'd say that these people "gave a rat's ass" about it.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

It's unlikely it will come up using the Wealth Level system. Things like that will be glossed over.

I don't see why it would, they don't get glossed over in modern. The player does the same exact thing except he doesn't need to fiddle with his character sheet.

Ah, but one of the northern city states of Shem is attempting to annex this little town the players have wandered into. It's a fued. Troops haven't been used yet, but it has been discussed in the Shemite courts.

Accepting the Shemite coin further binds the town to Shem. The politcals will argue, "Look, the place is already using our money standard!" The town attempts to disconnect from Shem on every level possible.

Besides, the last merchant who accepted Shemite coins was dragged behind a horse through the middle of town, his establishment burned. He barely survived, moving south, towards Shem.

People spat upon him as he left.

I'd say that these people "gave a rat's ass" about it.

There is no money standard, that's a modern concept. Realistically they wouldn't care, just like people in England didn't care if someone used french coins while the two countries were at war. Silver is silver. A faceless piece of silver would be just as good, the weight is all that matters.

 

[Supplement Four]

There is no money standard, that's a modern concept. Realistically they wouldn't care, just like people in England didn't care if someone used french coins while the two countries were at war. Silver is silver. A faceless piece of silver would be just as good, the weight is all that matters.

A quick Google turned up this web site that explains Early Eurpoean money standard and debasement, and it covers why some coins were not accepted in spite of the silver content of the coin itself.

http://chestofbooks.com/finance/banking/Money-And-Banking/1-Early-European-Experience.html

 

[rabindranath72]

Eh, the point is, there is nothing like that in the Conan or Fafhrd etc. stories. You can definitely run things that way, but IMO it will not "feel" like a Conan story.

What? There certainly are barter scenes. I remember a quite funny one where Conan bargains in a bazaar for two loaves of bread, saying somethin like, "Woman! I'm not trying to buy your daughters and all your sons as well, I only want two loaves of bread!"

That's was a John Maddox Roberts story, IIRC.

But, even REH is always talking about Conan's wealth--what he got and how fast he spent it on his wine, his women, and his song.

I remember reading Robert Jordan's Conan tales with the barbarian finding a ruby as big as the first joint of his thumb.

And, Offutt wrote of the specific items Conan lifted on specific night in Arenjun.

There's a grand history of "specific" loot, REH included, but also with many other Conan writers (I can think of an L. Sprague de Camp tale too), and more than one Conan-in-the-bazaar-scene-bartering as well.

Honestly, I don't consider pastiches very representative of the S&S genre. One of the reasons to keep with the true masters of the genre.
Keeping to REH tales we see that Conan drinks, eats etc. The point is, we don't absolutely see scenes of bartering, nor of buying, nor the prices of items are given (the only possible exception I can recall being the slave worth 300 silver pieces)
Regarding treasures, exceptional ones like huge diamonds (heart of the elephant) are certainly fine. But coin caches and "mundane" treasures e.g. are best dealt with, IMO, abstractly. If you give a look at Ruins of Hyboria by Vincent Darlage (best book in the whole line IMO), you will see practical examples of this philosophy.

 

[rabindranath72]

There is no money standard, that's a modern concept. Realistically they wouldn't care, just like people in England didn't care if someone used french coins while the two countries were at war. Silver is silver. A faceless piece of silver would be just as good, the weight is all that matters.

A quick Google turned up this web site that explains Early Eurpoean money standard and debasement, and it covers why some coins were not accepted in spite of the silver content of the coin itself.

http://chestofbooks.com/finance/banking/Money-And-Banking/1-Early-European-Experience.html

These are the arguments that completely spoil the flavour of S&S tales!
If the aim is to reproduce the dynamics of Conan's tales, these details are really needless, and distracting, too.

 

[Supplement Four]

These are the arguments that completely spoil the flavour of S&S tales!
If the aim is to reproduce the dynamics of Conan's tales, these details are really needless, and distracting, too.

We'll have to disagree on this. That one big barter scene written by JMR, even if a pastiche, is an excellent scene (memorable still after reading it 20 years ago), and very Conan.

The big brute, in a southern town, hungry. He only wants some bread. The woman peddler wants every coin she can get for her bread.

It's a great addition to the tales.