Ship's Fabricator

[Terry Mixon]

Never implied they were. I was just extending Anstett's musings. But they may be significantly denser than humans. Say, 1.25 times?

In any case, it all still comes back to dimensions, not density. Estimating how many litres of fabricator you will need to print a body or body part is going to be based on its height, width and depth. So unless the print is conveniently shaped the same as the cavity, you will usually need a lot more volume of fabricator than the print has.

An average human requires a 32 slot medical chamber according to the rules. Imperial regulations bumps that to 50 to cover virtually every human, no matter how massive or obese.

A robotic slot is 1.5 liters, so a 48 liters would accommodate an average human, according to the rules.

You can use that as a scale for smaller chambers for body parts or skimp and save to get one that works.

 

[MonsterX]

Can you reduce the slots if you accept short stubby replacement arms and legs instead of full-length ones? It could be all your health insurance will cover...

 

[CordwainerFish]

Virushi are significantly denser, I think.

Are they? I'd expect them to be bags of mostly water, like the rest of us. For certain their skeleta may compose more of their bulk, but bone does not average that much more dense than the gooshier parts of us - and Virushi could easily have a lower ratio of cortical to cancellous bone than we do.

 

[rinku]

Are they? I'd expect them to be bags of mostly water, like the rest of us. For certain their skeleta may compose more of their bulk, but bone does not average that much more dense than the gooshier parts of us - and Virushi could easily have a lower ratio of cortical to cancellous bone than we do.

They have a thick armoured hide. I was including that too, but also you would expect average bone density would be higher in a higher G environment. Virush is Size A, so nominally 1.4G, as well as having a dense atmosphere and high radiation. I'd expect pretty much denser and thicker everything. They mass around 1000kg, but appear roughly the size of a large quadruped.

At a guess, a Terran critter that size might be 500-700kg. So I think a density on the order of 1.25 to 1.5 would not be out of line.

In any case... you're going to need a bigger printer

 

[J. L. Brown]

That looks larger than a bull, and masses about the same.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Here we see the discrimination inherent in the system. Human this Human that, where are the Aslan replacements? The Vargr specifications for hair patterns? The delicate wing structure of....

giving @MasterGwydion a bit of a go

I agree that Size 6 creatures need bigger things, fabricators included.

I am just amazed by this whole thread. Talking about dimensions of objects. Guys, (and girls if any happen to be around...) the dimensions of the object to be fabricated doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the volume. You buy the fabricator by volume, not by dimensions. So, the damn fabricator can be any dimensions that you want it to have. The only thing that matters game mechanic-wise is the volume. See how easy that was? You guys are being way more granular than the rules as written.

 

[rinku]

In terms of purchasing the fabricator, 100% agree. There will be all sorts of models in many common dimensions, price is based on volume, just like fridges and ovens.

But you can't change the dimensions later, so it is an important choice that needs to be noted.

 

[MasterGwydion]

In terms of purchasing the fabricator, 100% agree. There will be all sorts of models in many common dimensions, price is based on volume, just like fridges and ovens.

But you can't change the dimensions later, so it is an important choice that needs to be noted.

Why? The game doesn't really support that level of granularity. That is the whole reason that the kg to cl thing exists in the first place. It has two ways to determine if you have a big enough fabricator, volume and weight. That is it.

Edit - Note, I do not like the whole kg to cl thing at all, and I do ignore it, but it is what we have.

 

[rinku]

You're in a particularly fractious mood today, MG. One the one hand you're angry about the conflation between litres and kilograms... on the other hand you don't see the need to nail down the maximum length of a body that a specific body printer of given volume can manage...

 

[MasterGwydion]

You're in a particularly fractious mood today, MG. One the one hand you're angry about the conflation between litres and kilograms... on the other hand you don't see the need to nail down the maximum length of a body that a specific body printer of given volume can manage...

I just hate designs that don't even do what they are purported to do. Also, stupidity annoys Me. I have spent the last month trying to get My internet fixed and for 4 straight weeks the ISP has sent their technicians to the wrong island. (Not even the wrong house, the completely wrong island. They were almost 30 miles off the correct location.) I gave up on stupid people and went out, bought Starlink, and installed it today, so I am back online without issues.

I actually do see the need to nail down the dimensions of a fabricator, but we need to think of what that will change in the game world. Right now, they are magic machines that only care about volume, just like jump engines and M-drives. It makes it simple for game purposes, but hardly mathematically functional when you start trying to include other parameters. The whole idea of jump drives and m drives breaks down if you include mass instead of just volume. Let Me rephrase, it doesn't "break down" so much as, the details of the math become so complicated that it isn't fun to use.

Edit - Same thing with Slots, cl, spaces, and dtons.

Dtons are based on hydrogen
Slots and cl are based on water
and Spaces? No idea what they are based on.

They (Mongoose) designed a system that is nearly impossible to make these measurements of volume to work together. There are more examples, I am sure, just this is the easiest to understand and verify mathematically.

 

[rinku]

That's why I largely step back from that. But I get you.

In any case, if you're buying a fabricator specifically to print bodies it enough to say it's suitably shaped for the job... but the start of the discussion was someone looking at how small they could get away with. It WAS relevant to point out you need a different shaped chamber to print a head than you need to print a leg. Honestly, I'd assume most ship fabs are probably 1 ton units that have a 1.5 x 3m deckplan footprint and can manage any reasonably sized body, including Aslan (but probably not Virushi), or quite large machinery. Or a 0.5 ton one with a 1.5m square base and enough height.

Since spaces seem to come from the vehicle rules, they're probably based on Car Wars

 

[J. L. Brown]

Since spaces seem to come from the vehicle rules, they're probably based on Car Wars

Nope; but would be nice. Steve Jackson Games (who made Car Wars) did GURPS: Traveller. They are committed to 'freedom units' stupidity; but the (14 m^3) dTon was approximated as 500 cubic feet, and the 'Vehicle Space' (using a closely integrated construction ruleset) was defined at 50 cubit feet. The vehicle construction rules for GURPS are intended to be (but IIRC, are not explicitly) interchangeable with vehicle construction in Car Wars.

So in GURPS: Traveller / Car Wars a 'vehicle space' is approximately 1.4 cubic meters -- on tenth of a dTon. In Mongoose a 'Vehicle Space' is one quarter of a dTon, about 3.5 cubic meters.

 

[rinku]

Well, it's all crosspollination. The 1980 Car Wars vehicle construction sequence is pretty obviously developed from 1977 Traveller's ship one. Which was the first example of such a beast.

 

[MasterGwydion]

That's why I largely step back from that. But I get you.

In any case, if you're buying a fabricator specifically to print bodies it enough to say it's suitably shaped for the job... but the start of the discussion was someone looking at how small they could get away with.

Small is function of volume, not dimensions. You can have objects with many different dimensions that are still the same volume/size.

It WAS relevant to point out you need a different shaped chamber to print a head than you need to print a leg. Honestly, I'd assume most ship fabs are probably 1 ton units that have a 1.5 x 3m deckplan footprint and can manage any reasonably sized body, including Aslan (but probably not Virushi), or quite large machinery. Or a 0.5 ton one with a 1.5m square base and enough height.

I usually add the cost of a 128-slot fabricator to every workshop I put on ships, so you and I use the same size fabricators.

 

[rinku]

Small is function of volume, not dimensions. You can have objects with many different dimensions that are still the same volume/size.

Good luck fitting a 5 litre pole into a 5 litre bucket.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Good luck fitting a 5 litre pole into a 5 litre bucket.

Agreed, but the game is not that granular. You can make it that granular at your table, but would that really add anything fun to the game or just more ways for things to be more difficult to use?

Edit - Or something like a pool cue. Long rod, but built in sections and screwed together.

Edit of the Edit - Also, a 5-liter bucket is not actually 5 liters. It is likely less than a liter of actual material. So, as far as Traveller rules are concerned, a 5-liter bucket is actually less than 5 liters.

 

[mavikfelna]

So, um, at least at TL13+ why can't a fab adjust it it's chamber dimensions as long as it doesn't go over its listed volume?

 

[MasterGwydion]

So, um, at least at TL13+ why can't a fab adjust it it's chamber dimensions as long as it doesn't go over its listed volume?

My guess is for the same reason that the hammer in My toolbelt doesn't change dimensions based on what job I want to use it for? It could, in theory, but that is covered nowhere in the rules. Maybe you could combine a fab chamber with an adjustable hull type thing, but I have no idea otherwise.

 

[Terry Mixon]

So, um, at least at TL13+ why can't a fab adjust it it's chamber dimensions as long as it doesn't go over its listed volume?

Nothing says it is adjustable in its dimensions. @MasterGwydion will undoubtedly disagree, but my view is that they have a fixed form.

 

[rinku]

I'd be okay with the TL17+ ones doing that. But they're space magic anyway.

And as a point there ARE external fabs that don't use a chamber, but IIRC biological prints need a chamber.