Ship Suggestions/Changes - Psi-corp

[Clanger]

With the Psi Corp Troops I was thinking less on the Telepathic side and more on the Special Forces / Elite Unit side.

Also Psi Corp do have Black Omega Squadron (which I believe was not officially allowed), why not Special Forces? Maybe using low level telepaths (like Ivannova).

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Also, it doesn't have to be telepaths on the very front lines even if telepaths are involved. It could be special ops mundanes backed up by teep support.

 

[skavendan]

Greg Smith

The Hunter has speed 12 and 15" range. It really doesn't need to get that close. It can be 27" away one turn and cen get to fire the next.

The fighter carrier doesn't need the Carrier trait, it has one flight out at the start and launches its second on turn one. Now to get fighters back in a campaign is a different matter, but I figure that is a problem with Psi Corps - resupply of secret ships isn't as straightforward.

I totally agree things should be balanced towards a campaign.

The Hunter I find has an affective 27” but after a turn or 2 you want to move and get a better position due to it’s lack of agile I find myself over shooting my target occasionally and unable to keep a bead on them or having to flee from pod attacks. I don’t think the hunter needs an upgrade as such I just don’t like all my eggs in one basket 1 weapon is avoidable and with the right Critical it can be taken offline. Which happened when I faced the Minbari fortunately I managed to repair with my first roll. Also if you’re going to give shields to the Omega and Nemesis I think the Hunter should get some even if it’s only 5/1.

neko
Keep in mind that I'm only putting down the main ideas - I'm not excluding tweaking balance afterwards by messing with basic stats like damage or weapon AD. As is, a lot of people already think that the Mothership is borderline cheesy, so maybe both varients do need to lose more than they gain.
I think you're missing the main point of my ideas though - the Motherships themselves need to feel like valuable, rare centres of the Psi Corps, rather than merely a cross between a Hyperion and a fort. We could also do with a Raid choice where you don't feel bad for taking more than one of them in a single battle. The stats on this can be the same as present, but lets not call it one of the Motherships.

As for the just changing the Fighter Carrier, we going to need a new Skirmish choice if we reduce the fighter carrier to being just a Shadowcloak hull with a single flight of BO strapped on (which would be in the Patrol area of effectiveness).

Mothership cheesy? I’d like to know why she’s a low hull and very slow if you want to you can gang up on it. And if it’s forced into all stop and pivot to keep a bead on it’s target then it can not launch fighters. Side from the beam it is a short range vessel that struggles to gain on anyone.
I like the Mothership as is but I would like a beefier version I don’t believe in this hole raid level for a Mothership she could be big and well creepy.

As for the fighter Carrier I think it’s rubbish It deploys some fighters nice and character full but then it’s got terrible weapons at a low range it’s rather slow and lumbering by the time it gets a volley of it’s generally battered. To me it doesn’t fit into the ranks very well it’s ok to hang around near a Mothership to cover it and draw some fire but as an offensive ship it sucks.

Clanger
My update would be on the troops side of things. As Psi Corp Fleet is meant to be the Black Ops of Earth Force, they should have Special Forces as Troops.

I propose to the floor that due to their superior training that once per game Psi Corp Troops should get 1 re-roll per battle.

Interesting idea thought it is more defensive than offensive. I don’t mind it.

Foxmeister
I really don't think that the Psi-Corps would be using telepaths as front-line troops. Anyone involved in a boarding action is likely to have a short life expectancy - in the show, they always refer to the mundanes as expendable, that telepaths were too valuable to risk unnecessarily.

Your right they would use standard humans conned into working for them. This would also stop Clanger’s suggestion from being over powering as the defensive troops would get a re-roll and the offensive troopers wouldn’t.

 

[Locutus9956]

Sorry but the mothership IS borderline cheesy.

It's 'fragile hull' is about the same as a hyperion (lower hull score but a good 10 more hit points, twice the interceptor rating three times the anti fighter rating and stealth 4. If you think this ship is 'fragile' for a raid level ship then I'd hate to see what you think 'tough' should be )

It carries 4 x as many fighters as the aforementioned hyperion (and theyre signifigantly better fighters too).

It is every bit as well armed and has a 30" range so can generally start blasting away on turn 1.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks this ship is weak, underpowered or fragile is clearly not using them right! I'm using the Hyperion as a comparison since it's the most 'average' raid ship most people tend to think of. The Mothership IS less maneuverable and slower but it has such long range that that tends to make little difference. Oh and lastly it has good all round firepower anyway so if it cant boresight you then its lack of maneuverability makes little difference.

It's NOT broken but it IS very very good and definitely does NOT need improving and I would personally prefer to see it trimmed down very slightly.

As for the Nemesis not being weak, having it take out a Victory is not really an indication that its not too fragile. I've played similar games myself and have ripped my adversaries Nemesis to shreds and seen others do so too on numerous occasions. It's WEAPONS are fine but its just not tough enough for an armageddon ship. But to honest it's hard to form a decent oppinion of a ships capabilities when it relies primarily on a very potent triple or quad damage beam since so much of its effectiveness tends to rely on dice luck....

 

[skavendan]

Locutus9956

Sorry but the mothership IS borderline cheesy.

You missed out "in your opinion" here I think whitestars are bent as hell but hay that's a different rant

It's 'fragile hull' is about the same as a hyperion (lower hull score but a good 10 more hit points, twice the interceptor rating three times the anti fighter rating and stealth 4. If you think this ship is 'fragile' for a raid level ship then I'd hate to see what you think 'tough' should be )

Having only Hull 4 makes you very poor vs SAP or AP for that matter and it's got a stealth of 4+ woohoo paint it with a scout, hit it with a e-mine or allied e-mine ta dar easy to hit. I think it needs the high interceptors and anti fighter since it's speed 4 anything could catch upto this ship. And your just going to fly directly towards a ship that has a B arc beam of course your going to get shot up. Try a 1on1 VS a whitestar and see who gets behind who and who dies.

As a rule I don't like hull 4 ships, I don't think the mothership is under or over powered I've seen them taking beatings. And it's the only ship am aware of that Can not escape an exploding ship when you roll explodes next turn after moving. That's fun, the only time a Hull 4 ship tends to shine is against something like Minbari where you get beamed and mini-beamed to death

It carries 4 x as many fighters as the aforementioned hyperion (and theyre signifigantly better fighters too).

Actually you could swap the fighter out for a TBolt and shoot at the mothership if you wanted to this comparison point is abit iffy OK Psi corps has good fighters but there not the best. I thought were lookin at the mothership not her pay load. You could argue the fighters on the fighter carrier make it a better ship but I wouldn't agree to that either.

It is every bit as well armed and has a 30" range so can generally start blasting away on turn 1.

If you have a good tactical deployment you can get away from that B arc beam and they struggle to get it back on you again, I have had it happen in 3 aram point game they went for one flank I thought they would go for the other, it fired once in the entire game. My deployment could of been abit better but the speed was also a factor even when I got it to face them I was just out of range and crawlin forward they could out move me quiet easily.

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks this ship is weak, underpowered or fragile is clearly not using them right! I'm using the Hyperion as a comparison since it's the most 'average' raid ship most people tend to think of. The Mothership IS less maneuverable and slower but it has such long range that that tends to make little difference. Oh and lastly it has good all round firepower anyway so if it cant boresight you then its lack of maneuverability makes little difference.

A good player will keep out of 10" and it's not hard to do even if you move before the mothership with 4" she wont pull any super move that will suprise you. leaving you with only your B arc weapon

It's NOT broken but it IS very very good and definitely does NOT need improving and I would personally prefer to see it trimmed down very slightly.

I think you mistake my desire for a better mothership as a desire for a better RAID level mothership. Which Is not the case. The mothership is a OK raid ship. given her speed and ranges. I would like a carrier version though at say WAR level

As for the Nemesis not being weak, having it take out a Victory is not really an indication that its not too fragile. I've played similar games myself and have ripped my adversaries Nemesis to shreds and seen others do so too on numerous occasions. It's WEAPONS are fine but its just not tough enough for an armageddon ship. But to honest it's hard to form a decent oppinion of a ships capabilities when it relies primarily on a very potent triple or quad damage beam since so much of its effectiveness tends to rely on dice luck....

I didn't say it wasn't weak I simply have not been in a situation before now where it has been battered. I can't really suggest an upgrade till I have seen it get battered.

 

[Rawwar]

Dan the Mothership is damn good add that to your beam rolls and it's damn right cheesy too no borderline about it.

If it gets an upgrade I'm coming down with the Ancient Golf Club Ship of Doom.

FOUR.............! :twisted:

 

[skavendan]

Dan the Mothership is damn good add that to your beam rolls and it's damn right cheesy too no borderline about it.

If it gets an upgrade I'm coming down with the Ancient Golf Club Ship of Doom.

FOUR.............! :twisted:

I can't help that the dice love me it's becase am a telepath and am evil :twisted: besides I've only managed a 17AD hit

I mean as a variant though at high points like war.... Look at it as a plee to not have to take a damn paper-weight lol

 

[Rawwar]

What about a carrier Mothership base on the Civi model with reduced firepower, more fighters & the Fleet Carrier ability. Might give it command might not?

What do you think?

 

[skavendan]

What about a carrier Mothership base on the Civi model with reduced firepower, more fighters & the Fleet Carrier ability. Might give it command might not?

What do you think?

hybrid? like this

Speed 4
Turns 1/45
Hull 5
Damage 38/6
Crew 36/5
Troops 4
Craft 4 Black Omega, 4 Shadow Furys, 4 TBolts (option to swap and that from EA)
AJE,AF6,Int4,Lumbering,PSI C5,Stealth 4+, Carrier 4, Fleet Carrier
Heavy Phasing Pulse 12" T 12 AP DD

Could do with abit of a tweak to bring it up to WAR PL standards.

 

[Rawwar]

hybrid? like this

Speed 4
Turns 1/45
Hull 5
Damage 38/6
Crew 36/5
Troops 4
Craft 4 Black Omega, 4 Shadow Furys, 4 TBolts (option to swap and that from EA)
AJE,AF6,Int4,Lumbering,PSI C5,Stealth 4+, Carrier 4, Fleet Carrier
Heavy Phasing Pulse 12" T 12 AP DD

Could do with abit of a tweak to bring it up to WAR PL standards.

What is it with you & yr War level golf balls?

 

[Shadow Queen]

hybrid? like this

Speed 4
Turns 1/45
Hull 5
Damage 38/6
Crew 36/5
Troops 4
Craft 4 Black Omega, 4 Shadow Furys, 4 TBolts (option to swap and that from EA)
AJE,AF6,Int4,Lumbering,PSI C5,Stealth 4+, Carrier 4, Fleet Carrier
Heavy Phasing Pulse 12" T 12 AP DD

Could do with abit of a tweak to bring it up to WAR PL standards.

What is it with you & yr War level golf balls?

Space Golf Balls you mean?

 

[skavendan]

OK just for Rawwar lol a raid level variant.

Speed 4
Turns 1/45
Hull 4
Damage 38/6
Crew 36/5
Troops 4
Craft 2 Black Omega, 2 Shadow Furys, 2 TBolts
Traits AJE,AF6,Int4,Lumbering,PSI C5,Stealth 4+, Carrier 3, Fleet Carrier.

Your gainnin 2 traits and 2 extra fighters with the option to play with what fighters you field so this obviously has to come out of the weapons.

Medium Pulse Cannon 10" F/P/S 6

Lose 2AD on the batteries and twin-linked with no beam a considerable weapon tone down.

 

[Everyman]

The fighter carrier doesn't need the Carrier trait, it has one flight out at the start and launches its second on turn one. Now to get fighters back in a campaign is a different matter, but I figure that is a problem with Psi Corps - resupply of secret ships isn't as straightforward.

I disagree that this should be a Psi Corp resupply problem. After all the Black Omega (which is the only fighter it can carry) is just a basic starfury with a fancy paint job. The starfury is the mass production module standard space fighter for EA and if the Corp can get their hands on a Marathon or Warlock then getting several starfuries should be simplicity.

 

[l33tpenguin]

A varient of the Shadow Cloak that drops scout for flight of BO.

A varient of the Fighter Carrier that dropped the fighters and made it a weapons platform of some sort. Make it like a Chronos that relies on stealth rather than a hard hull. Maybe two different weapons platform varients. One with a long range beam but weaker secondaries (something like the Narn's K'tan) and a better 'all around fighter' with strong mid range weapons

A Command Mothership varient. Basicly just copying what was done with the Omega.

A Fleet Carrier Mothership varient.

I was thinking about varients for the hunter, however it seems more like a 'prototype' sort of ship so it would be a bit early to do any sort of changes to its hull.

Oh, I'd give the BO Stealth 2 or 3 to represent the enhanced ECM package they are supposed to have

 

[skavendan]

The fighter carrier doesn't need the Carrier trait, it has one flight out at the start and launches its second on turn one. Now to get fighters back in a campaign is a different matter, but I figure that is a problem with Psi Corps - resupply of secret ships isn't as straightforward.

I disagree that this should be a Psi Corp resupply problem. After all the Black Omega (which is the only fighter it can carry) is just a basic starfury with a fancy paint job. The starfury is the mass production module standard space fighter for EA and if the Corp can get their hands on a Marathon or Warlock then getting several starfuries should be simplicity.

It's not reprentanted like that in the game though Everyman, EA is treated like an allie which is stupid at best, there still humans just inferior humans.

 

[skavendan]

A varient of the Shadow Cloak that drops scout for flight of BO.

A varient of the Fighter Carrier that dropped the fighters and made it a weapons platform of some sort. Make it like a Chronos that relies on stealth rather than a hard hull. Maybe two different weapons platform varients. One with a long range beam but weaker secondaries (something like the Narn's K'tan) and a better 'all around fighter' with strong mid range weapons

A Command Mothership varient. Basicly just copying what was done with the Omega.

A Fleet Carrier Mothership varient.

I was thinking about varients for the hunter, however it seems more like a 'prototype' sort of ship so it would be a bit early to do any sort of changes to its hull.

Oh, I'd give the BO Stealth 2 or 3 to represent the enhanced ECM package they are supposed to have

Not bad could have a different ship to the hunter to give abit more option variants are not the only way to go you know. Standard Omega would fit quiet nicely as Shadow-omega is a supposased upgrade on it.

BO with stealt 2+/3+ would be pointless. And the primary killer of Black Omega's is e-mines to which there is no defense apart from having a fleet carrier which the Corp can not have at current.

 

[l33tpenguin]

Not bad could have a different ship to the hunter to give abit more option variants are not the only way to go you know. Standard Omega would fit quiet nicely as Shadow-omega is a supposased upgrade on it.

BO with stealt 2+/3+ would be pointless. And the primary killer of Black Omega's is e-mines to which there is no defense apart from having a fleet carrier which the Corp can not have at current.

I'm aware 2 or 3 stealth on the BO would be nearly pointless. That was part of the intent of making it so low. Its just there to represent their enhanced ECM package. Not give them a real boost. At most it would serve to save them from an odd long range shot every now and again. I think the BO are fine as is. Low stealth would be more of a fluff change.

A Fleet Carrier mothership varient would solve that fleet carrier problem

And, E-mines are the bane of all fighters

With the allies rules, Psi-Corp can already take an omega if the fight is big enough

 

[skavendan]

Not bad could have a different ship to the hunter to give abit more option variants are not the only way to go you know. Standard Omega would fit quiet nicely as Shadow-omega is a supposased upgrade on it.

BO with stealt 2+/3+ would be pointless. And the primary killer of Black Omega's is e-mines to which there is no defense apart from having a fleet carrier which the Corp can not have at current.

I'm aware 2 or 3 stealth on the BO would be nearly pointless. That was part of the intent of making it so low. Its just there to represent their enhanced ECM package. Not give them a real boost. At most it would serve to save them from an odd long range shot every now and again. I think the BO are fine as is. Low stealth would be more of a fluff change.

A Fleet Carrier mothership varient would solve that fleet carrier problem

And, E-mines are the bane of all fighters

With the allies rules, Psi-Corp can already take an omega if the fight is big enough

Yup I keep saying they need a fleet carrier.....

Yeah but only if it is a Battle level mission.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

Random thought regarding the Shadowcloak (either a change or a varient):

Speed: 8
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 4
Damage: 8/2
Crew: 9/2
Troops: 1
Craft: 1 Black Omega Stary flight
Special Rules: Interceptors 1, Psychic Crew 4, Scout, Stealth 4+
In Service: 2261+

Weapons          Range   Arc   AD   Special
Particle Beam    8       T     4    Weak

This could represent the type of Shadowcloak we saw in the Black Omega ambush. From reading the Psi Corps trilogy, I got the impression that such vessels would also be used for information gathering, hence the inclusion of Scout. From there it occured to me that such a ship probably wouldn't need any weapons for self defence beyond those found on a standard freighter - it has a flight of BOs to defend it! By not mounting larger weapons on the ship itself, it probably also makes it easier for it to pass as a civilian vessel when needed.

 

[skavendan]

Random thought regarding the Shadowcloak (either a change or a varient):

Speed: 8
Turns: 2/90
Hull: 4
Damage: 8/2
Crew: 9/2
Troops: 1
Craft: 1 Black Omega Stary flight
Special Rules: Interceptors 1, Psychic Crew 4, Scout, Stealth 4+
In Service: 2261+

Weapons          Range   Arc   AD   Special
Particle Beam    8       T     4    Weak

This could represent the type of Shadowcloak we saw in the Black Omega ambush. From reading the Psi Corps trilogy, I got the impression that such vessels would also be used for information gathering, hence the inclusion of Scout. From there it occured to me that such a ship probably wouldn't need any weapons for self defence beyond those found on a standard freighter - it has a flight of BOs to defend it! By not mounting larger weapons on the ship itself, it probably also makes it easier for it to pass as a civilian vessel when needed.

I'd take weak of and you have a reasonable patrol level ship.