MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Well is the assumed aver TL is 12 I'd say that they cannot easily be punctured by small arms, knives, etc. And of course strong enough to hold in all that weight under High G maneuvers.
Ship Design Philosophy
- Thread starter Condottiere
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
The usual assumption would appear to be that bladder equipped spacecraft operate under inertial compensation.
So high gravity manoeuvre survival is still open to question.
Punctures can be caused by micrometeorites, or that loose screw in orbit, so I'd be more interested in self sealing.
So high gravity manoeuvre survival is still open to question.
Punctures can be caused by micrometeorites, or that loose screw in orbit, so I'd be more interested in self sealing.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
TL8 and later any kind of liquid container that might encounter a puncture in regular use should be self sealing for very minor punctures. TL5-7 you would need to add it on for extra cost. As TL advances, the level of puncture that is self sealing should increase, maybe every 2 TL is 1 level but major punctures probably are beyond self sealing abilities.
Minor armoring should become integrated as TL advances as well, as light weight, high strength materials become common and inexpensive to produce.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Kevlar?
Finding a leak in a gas filled volume is fairly easy, and a second layer with a sealant might work for automatic repair.
The obvious use is to create volume, possibly using a concertina frame that can expand.
A smallcraft could be equipped with a jump drive, or use it as a bridge for goods or personnel between two spacecraft.
Finding a leak in a gas filled volume is fairly easy, and a second layer with a sealant might work for automatic repair.
The obvious use is to create volume, possibly using a concertina frame that can expand.
A smallcraft could be equipped with a jump drive, or use it as a bridge for goods or personnel between two spacecraft.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Agreed but that can be damaged or suffer failure. So it would probably be given some consideration
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
We could use primitive hulls as the basis.
You can't accelerate faster than factor/three, and can't install either manoeuvre or jump drives.
Considering the material involved, I'd discount plasma and rockets, as well.
It's possible that the prohibition against faster than factor/three, could be due to the lack of inertial compensation field, but that's not mentioned in the description, so I'll take it as presented.
The next aspect is what can you install inside the bladder covered superstructure, outside of the drives.
You can't accelerate faster than factor/three, and can't install either manoeuvre or jump drives.
Considering the material involved, I'd discount plasma and rockets, as well.
It's possible that the prohibition against faster than factor/three, could be due to the lack of inertial compensation field, but that's not mentioned in the description, so I'll take it as presented.
The next aspect is what can you install inside the bladder covered superstructure, outside of the drives.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Accommodations and Fuel Storage
L. We do need a frame that the fuel bladder can externally drape itself over.
M. We have no idea exactly how an external cargo mount is configured, outside of explosive bolts, but it does offer a customizable skeletal structure.
N. Plus, at a kilostarbux per (enclosed) tonne, it's cheap.
O. Together with the external fuel bladder, that would be one and a half kilostarbux per (enclosed) tonne.
P. As far as I know, external cargo mounts aren't extendable.
L. We do need a frame that the fuel bladder can externally drape itself over.
M. We have no idea exactly how an external cargo mount is configured, outside of explosive bolts, but it does offer a customizable skeletal structure.
N. Plus, at a kilostarbux per (enclosed) tonne, it's cheap.
O. Together with the external fuel bladder, that would be one and a half kilostarbux per (enclosed) tonne.
P. As far as I know, external cargo mounts aren't extendable.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
No, mention of any frame in any listing of these types of tanks.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That's because we're moving into territory that's not been explored.
I would bet there are reinforced ribs in the fuel bladder, made of the same material.
I would bet there are reinforced ribs in the fuel bladder, made of the same material.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Right, but remember that it "collapses down to 1% of its volume no matter what. So take that into consideration when modeling anything but a bag with shape.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Accommodations and Fuel Storage
Q. Hull points would be a mystery.
R. Technically, what would have would be a covered cargo hold, that's structurally strong enough to keep external cargo attached to the hull.
S. I wouldn't try a full throated planetary reentry with it, though dead slow should work.
T. This wouldn't qualify for junkerification, since the external cargo mount is ruleswise attachable to the hull.
U. Junkerification is the welding together of disparate hull remnants.
Q. Hull points would be a mystery.
R. Technically, what would have would be a covered cargo hold, that's structurally strong enough to keep external cargo attached to the hull.
S. I wouldn't try a full throated planetary reentry with it, though dead slow should work.
T. This wouldn't qualify for junkerification, since the external cargo mount is ruleswise attachable to the hull.
U. Junkerification is the welding together of disparate hull remnants.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Which is why we need something to give it a permanent structure, and after some consideration, the external cargo mount seemed made for that, especially since it's a preexisting hull add on.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
I have large collapsible emergency water storage containers that fill to a cube shape. Nothing else needed. Mounted external to hull might be problematic without a "cage" of some type and even more, not built for exposure to gamma, blazing heat from a sun etc. But internally in a cargo hold, no.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
That allows it to be extendable.
However, what we want to achieve is an enclosed space that vacuum proof, which the bladder material should achieve, and a permanent structure, that a sudden lose of air pressure, wouldn't affect the configuration.
As regards the usual degradation of materials from environmental conditions such as ultraviolet rays, highly possible, but depending on the durability of said material, could be covered under annual maintenance costs.
Extreme temperatures, at either end, will damage the bladder, though we might need to establish how cold liquid hydrogen gets.
However, what we want to achieve is an enclosed space that vacuum proof, which the bladder material should achieve, and a permanent structure, that a sudden lose of air pressure, wouldn't affect the configuration.
As regards the usual degradation of materials from environmental conditions such as ultraviolet rays, highly possible, but depending on the durability of said material, could be covered under annual maintenance costs.
Extreme temperatures, at either end, will damage the bladder, though we might need to establish how cold liquid hydrogen gets.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Since these appeared in the rules I've never seen them used for the current jump fuel but to hold unrefined fuel (aka water) for an additional Jump. Being processed into the normal fuel tanks as LHyd during jump. But that may just be my take on it
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Collapsible fuel tanks (also called fuel bladders) are large flexible bladders that expand when filled with liquid-hydrogen fuel.
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
thanks. It's been decades since I read it. What's the ref?
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
At one atmosphere it's liquid up to -253 °C (-423 °F)
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
MarcusIII
Cosmic Mongoose
Thanks, I last read it around the time of Mega Trav
