In My Traveller Universe, I use Scouts as a sort of good will monitoring system of low population worlds that are not really on the main routes for merchant activity. Their small cargo capacity limits them from handling high needs shipping, but their constant patrolling of the worlds where they put in to keep tabs on things, a finger on the pulse of the world so to speak, allows them to assist the subsector Duke in keeping informed of things happening within his subsector. They're not military, nor are they really government ships per se - they go where they go and report upon what they see. Even scouts who have left the service and flit about in their own scout ship as a mustering out benefit, are required to report on things they see where every they may go. Just seems to be a natural fit for me.
Ship Design Philosophy
- Thread starter Condottiere
- Start date
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
A. Factor/one seems fairly common for commercial shipping.
B. For sub Terran gravity wells, that's enough to lift off.
C. And that allows you to keep the base technological level to nine.
D. Commercially, in the far majority of cases, there's very little point in having more than factor/three.
E. Which is base technological level ten.
F. Too bad for a factor one plus that would one able to lift off from any colonized world, you'd need technological level ten.
A. Factor/one seems fairly common for commercial shipping.
B. For sub Terran gravity wells, that's enough to lift off.
C. And that allows you to keep the base technological level to nine.
D. Commercially, in the far majority of cases, there's very little point in having more than factor/three.
E. Which is base technological level ten.
F. Too bad for a factor one plus that would one able to lift off from any colonized world, you'd need technological level ten.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
G. Decided to look up reactionary rockets factor/zero.
H. Reaction 0 drives require 0.25 tons of fuel per hour of Thrust.
I. Probably means percent, not actual volume.
J. The actual thing needs one percent volume, and costs one fifth of a megastarbux per tonne.
K. Seems the cheaper option, for something that's used rarely.
G. Decided to look up reactionary rockets factor/zero.
H. Reaction 0 drives require 0.25 tons of fuel per hour of Thrust.
I. Probably means percent, not actual volume.
J. The actual thing needs one percent volume, and costs one fifth of a megastarbux per tonne.
K. Seems the cheaper option, for something that's used rarely.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
This may have consolidated a concept I've had in mind for years.
If only for cargo carriers.
This may have consolidated a concept I've had in mind for years.
If only for cargo carriers.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
L. The thing about cargo holds and fuel tanks is while they look like they're free, you still allocate the per tonne hull cost to the volume they take up.
M. It's quite easy to attach cargo pods to the exterior of the hull, with all the added complications that entails.
N. Or, drop tanks, with specialized mounts that allow the fuel direct access to the jump drives.
O. But, it seems we can maintain structural integrity by leaving a hole in the middle of a spacecraft.
P. And, could weld both ends shut, creating additional volume, without paying for it, with the exceptions of the welding and the welded plating.
L. The thing about cargo holds and fuel tanks is while they look like they're free, you still allocate the per tonne hull cost to the volume they take up.
M. It's quite easy to attach cargo pods to the exterior of the hull, with all the added complications that entails.
N. Or, drop tanks, with specialized mounts that allow the fuel direct access to the jump drives.
O. But, it seems we can maintain structural integrity by leaving a hole in the middle of a spacecraft.
P. And, could weld both ends shut, creating additional volume, without paying for it, with the exceptions of the welding and the welded plating.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
Q. You could use it for fuel storage, but lacking the requisite plumbing that a dedicated fuel tank would have, not for the jump drive.
R. If you layer it like a cake, you could insert round disks between each, and that becomes a deck.
S. Being vacuum proof, you could also pump air into each gap.
T. I guess, it could also be the basis of a cheap O'Neill cylinder.
U. Though, my original idea was to act as a protected hangar.
Q. You could use it for fuel storage, but lacking the requisite plumbing that a dedicated fuel tank would have, not for the jump drive.
R. If you layer it like a cake, you could insert round disks between each, and that becomes a deck.
S. Being vacuum proof, you could also pump air into each gap.
T. I guess, it could also be the basis of a cheap O'Neill cylinder.
U. Though, my original idea was to act as a protected hangar.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
V. Plasma drive requires one percent of volume to create one twentieth of a thrust factor.
W. That doesn't reflect on whether you can make a smaller sized drive, but does indicate as to the minimum thrust a drive could produce.
X. For a manoeuvre drive, that means you could load up so much tonnage, until the (default) ratio of manoeuvre drive to volume can be one to two thousand.
Y. You can probably do less, but this provides a rather solid basis for the case of factor oh point oh five.
Z. In theory, you could install one of these on spacestations, but I rather suspect the factor/zeros are more strategically placed to reorientate smoothly, as opposed to getting pushed in one direction.
V. Plasma drive requires one percent of volume to create one twentieth of a thrust factor.
W. That doesn't reflect on whether you can make a smaller sized drive, but does indicate as to the minimum thrust a drive could produce.
X. For a manoeuvre drive, that means you could load up so much tonnage, until the (default) ratio of manoeuvre drive to volume can be one to two thousand.
Y. You can probably do less, but this provides a rather solid basis for the case of factor oh point oh five.
Z. In theory, you could install one of these on spacestations, but I rather suspect the factor/zeros are more strategically placed to reorientate smoothly, as opposed to getting pushed in one direction.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
1. Operating cost wise, you can't really beat a gravitationally motivated drive.
2. Everything else eats gas, in prodigious amounts.
3. And, the alternates also take up more equivalent volume.
4. For commercial shipping, I wouldn't invest in high burn thrusters for possible use in combat.
5. However, temporary use to escape high gravity wells does seem viable.
6. It's canonical that labelling a reactionary rocket propulsion system as high burn thruster will stack acceleration.
7. Plasma drive, who knows?
8. Is worth installing one in commercial shipping?
9. Probably not, since most colonized planets tend to be smaller than Terra.
1. Operating cost wise, you can't really beat a gravitationally motivated drive.
2. Everything else eats gas, in prodigious amounts.
3. And, the alternates also take up more equivalent volume.
4. For commercial shipping, I wouldn't invest in high burn thrusters for possible use in combat.
5. However, temporary use to escape high gravity wells does seem viable.
6. It's canonical that labelling a reactionary rocket propulsion system as high burn thruster will stack acceleration.
7. Plasma drive, who knows?
8. Is worth installing one in commercial shipping?
9. Probably not, since most colonized planets tend to be smaller than Terra.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
A. Going by one of those Traveller supplements, ideal gravitational living conditions are between seventy to one hundred forty percent Terran norm gravity.
B. If you have plenty of time, factor one and a half thrust will eventually get you into orbit.
C. All things considered, factor/three is the optimal acceleration to lift off from Terra.
D. Manoeuvre drive factor/one, difference of factor/two would be four percent reactionary rocket, and two to five percent fuel.
E. It's sort of implied that going faster than factor/three, requires heat shielding.
F. Presumably, Terran atmosphere equivalent.
A. Going by one of those Traveller supplements, ideal gravitational living conditions are between seventy to one hundred forty percent Terran norm gravity.
B. If you have plenty of time, factor one and a half thrust will eventually get you into orbit.
C. All things considered, factor/three is the optimal acceleration to lift off from Terra.
D. Manoeuvre drive factor/one, difference of factor/two would be four percent reactionary rocket, and two to five percent fuel.
E. It's sort of implied that going faster than factor/three, requires heat shielding.
F. Presumably, Terran atmosphere equivalent.
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Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
G. Factor three requires one round to reach orbit, and supposedly another half round to escape from it, assuming Terran norm.
H. If we break up fuel consumption, default, that's three quarters of a percent, plus four percent, is four and three quarters percent of hull volume.
I. Factor two requires two rounds to reach orbit, one round escape; two percent reactionary rockets, plus three quarters percent fuel, total two and three quarters percent.
J. Factor one and half requires four rounds to reach orbit, two rounds to escape; one percent reactionary rocket, plus three quarters percent fuel, total one and three quarters percent.
K. Factor one and a quarter requires eight rounds to reach orbit, four rounds to escape; half a percent reactionary rocket, plus three quarters percent fuel, total one and three quarters percent.
G. Factor three requires one round to reach orbit, and supposedly another half round to escape from it, assuming Terran norm.
H. If we break up fuel consumption, default, that's three quarters of a percent, plus four percent, is four and three quarters percent of hull volume.
I. Factor two requires two rounds to reach orbit, one round escape; two percent reactionary rockets, plus three quarters percent fuel, total two and three quarters percent.
J. Factor one and half requires four rounds to reach orbit, two rounds to escape; one percent reactionary rocket, plus three quarters percent fuel, total one and three quarters percent.
K. Factor one and a quarter requires eight rounds to reach orbit, four rounds to escape; half a percent reactionary rocket, plus three quarters percent fuel, total one and three quarters percent.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
L. Size four is Mars, and halves the thrust requirement, since the way the planet sizes are tiered, it splits the requirement into eighths.
M. That would make factoring of fractional thrust easier at one eighths at a time, which would simplify as to whether they can lift off from any particular gravity well.
N. Since there are four tiers from eight to Cee, eighths and quarters would probably be standard, as well, to deal with that.
O. Though, it would be more accurate the thrust was measured against the exact gravitational field that they have to overcome.
P. According to existing rules, as long as you have some form of thrust functioning, you can make gentle planetary landings.
L. Size four is Mars, and halves the thrust requirement, since the way the planet sizes are tiered, it splits the requirement into eighths.
M. That would make factoring of fractional thrust easier at one eighths at a time, which would simplify as to whether they can lift off from any particular gravity well.
N. Since there are four tiers from eight to Cee, eighths and quarters would probably be standard, as well, to deal with that.
O. Though, it would be more accurate the thrust was measured against the exact gravitational field that they have to overcome.
P. According to existing rules, as long as you have some form of thrust functioning, you can make gentle planetary landings.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
Q. If, for any number of reasons, you don't have a streamlined hull, you're going to want some form of manoeuvre drive.
R. It's pretty useful, besides soft planetary landings, and non heated atmospheric reentries.
S. Have sufficient thrust, you can float off the ground.
T. Lifters appear apocryphal in Mongoose.
U. You probably have to install a separate manoeuvre drive, orientated downwards.
Q. If, for any number of reasons, you don't have a streamlined hull, you're going to want some form of manoeuvre drive.
R. It's pretty useful, besides soft planetary landings, and non heated atmospheric reentries.
S. Have sufficient thrust, you can float off the ground.
T. Lifters appear apocryphal in Mongoose.
U. You probably have to install a separate manoeuvre drive, orientated downwards.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
V. In theory, you can't use two separate manoeuvre drives simultaneously, to create more thrust than their respective manufactured factors.
W. Which means, you can't use one as a high burn thruster to increase acceleration.
X. Maybe, their field frequencies interfere with each other?
Y. Before it became illegal, I had a separate manoeuvre drive, orientated downwards, to act as a lifter.
Z. Disadvantage orbital range, technological level ten, three energy efficiency advantages at one quarter power requirement.
V. In theory, you can't use two separate manoeuvre drives simultaneously, to create more thrust than their respective manufactured factors.
W. Which means, you can't use one as a high burn thruster to increase acceleration.
X. Maybe, their field frequencies interfere with each other?
Y. Before it became illegal, I had a separate manoeuvre drive, orientated downwards, to act as a lifter.
Z. Disadvantage orbital range, technological level ten, three energy efficiency advantages at one quarter power requirement.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Starships: Cheapest Possible
1. Now, how do I know we don't have lifters as part of the manoeuvre drive?
2. Like the inertial compensation field.
3. First of all, it's not mentioned in the revised High Guard.
4. Which would seem opportune.
5. And, there were plenty of opportunities to.
6. Second, and more important, no additional power drain.
7. However you slice, big engineering components either produce energy, or need it.
8. Also, the path they chose was vectored thrust.
9. Which, for a belly lander, would be underpowered.
1. Now, how do I know we don't have lifters as part of the manoeuvre drive?
2. Like the inertial compensation field.
3. First of all, it's not mentioned in the revised High Guard.
4. Which would seem opportune.
5. And, there were plenty of opportunities to.
6. Second, and more important, no additional power drain.
7. However you slice, big engineering components either produce energy, or need it.
8. Also, the path they chose was vectored thrust.
9. Which, for a belly lander, would be underpowered.
MarcusIII
Mongoose
I use a modified Cepheus Deluxe rule set. The vast majority of cargo/merch ships whether small or large are J1 with ability to use collapsible tanks in cargo for a J1+1 if needed as rates are per parsec not time. I have some good 100 Frontier trader designs that are the mainstay out on the fringes of known space. Those all sport a turret. Form follows economics as is case in most things of this nature
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
As you've discovered, if the starship is a monoparseccer, you only need one eleven percent dedicated fuel tank, anything additional can have an eleven percent cargo hold with a collapsible fuel bladder, which is ten times cheaper than a cargo/fuel container, and you don't have to clean up afterwards.
Don't forget the fuel purifier, and you've covered half the bases.
Don't forget the fuel purifier, and you've covered half the bases.
MarcusIII
Mongoose
Correct. didn't want to muddy the water but in MTU only water or other room temp hydrogen bearing liquids like ammonia can be stored in those cargo hold collapsible tanks so, enough Fuel purif plant to cycle a J1 worth of fuel in 6 or 7 days is always part of the design.
