Shadows fighter dispersal

[AdrianH]

When a Shadow ship launches fighters from its dispersal tube, they can be placed anywhere within a 3" group, anywhere up to 30" in front of the ship. They can not act again this turn, presumably because fighter movement and firing for this turn have already happened. Also presumably, anti-fighter fire for this turn has also already happened so the Shadow fighters don't need to face that until next turn. Any enemy ship which has not already fired can, presumably, fire its weapons at those fighters. Can the fighters dodge, or are they sitting targets until next turn?

If they are placed in base contact with enemy fighters, are they then considered to be in dogfight for the purpose of enemy fire? They can't actually attack as part of the dogfight until next turn, but if they're now officially in a dogfight, they can't be attacked by capital ship weapons.

What about asteroids and gas clouds? If the fighters are dumped into an asteroid field, do they need to roll against the asteroid density? Can the dispersal tube fire through an asteroid belt or gas cloud to the other side, or is it limited to line of sight as conventional weapons are?

 

[Burger]

I would say that you place the fighters in the end phase, as with standard launching of fighters. Not sure if that's technically accurate but it clears up a lot of the confusion and keeps it simple.

The fighter dispersal tube rules say you can place them anywhere within 30"... so no LOS needed. Putting them in asteroids, yes you'd have to roll IMO.

The launcher is F arc but the text says "anywhere". Wonder which overrules. If going for RAW then I think I would say the fighter dispersal tube rules overrule the F arc in the weapon line, so they actually function as though they were T arc (although for weapons crit purposes they still count as F arc).

 

[AdrianH]

That doesn't entirely answer the first question. When the fighters are placed, if they are in base contact with enemy fighters are they then in a dogfight? It doesn't affect enemy fire if they're placed in the end phase, but it may affect whether or not the enemy fighters can move during the next turn.

Related question, not limited to Shadows: if you launch a fighter the usual way during the end phase, you can put it anywhere within 3" of the launching ship. If that puts it into base contact with an enemy fighter, are they then in a dogfight?

Back to the dispersal tube. I'd say that it is limited to forward arc, and the fact that the text says "anywhere" is just another example of poor proof-reading. If Mongoose had really meant for the dispersal tube to fire anywhere, they'd have given it turret arc.

As for asteroids, my suggestion would be that since the dispersal tube is listed as a weapon, treat it as one. What it fires is a black spiky ball which you can put anywhere up to 30" in front of the ship. It can fire into but not through asteroids and dust clouds. The ball then bursts and the fighters move to anywhere in a 3" diameter circle which includes that point (probably easiest to mark the point, then put the fighters anywhere within a 1.5" radius from there). Any fighter which ends up in an asteroid field, either by being moved into it or because the ball burst inside it, gets to roll to avoid collision; failure means it rolls AD for however many inches it moved from the burst point. That is, if the dispersal tube threw it 30" and then the fighter moved 1.5" from the burst point, it rolls 2D, not 30D.

 

[H]

HEYY!! I can send you 7 pages of proof reading corrections! I could only do so much!! ;-)

The issue probably arose from the regular changes to the weapons o nthe shadowship being able to fir turrent, then forward, then turret, then both etc etc.
Personally i think it should be anywhere in any arc, but I also think the gun should be turreted, so there you go.
as for whether it will go through asteroids, then I concur on treating it as a weapon of black spiky ballness.

I do not think fighters launched from either a shadow ship, or by normal means from a lesser vessel should count as being in dogfight, they have just launched and are surely not up to combat velocity/readyness?
Given that they launch in the endphase, then move after ships but shoot before, they can probably get into dogfight anyway!

 

[Burger]

I agree that the F arc and LOS work better the way you said, and that is probably what was intended. But it is not what is written... so I guess it's up to your group to play either RAW or interpret the rules more sensiblly.

The rules are quite clear about dogfights, though. If a fighter is in base contact with another, then they are considered to be in a dogfight. So if you launch a fighter into base contact (by whatever means) then it is in a dogfight at the start of the next turn, and neither it nor the enemy can move away. If you want to remove this "tactical option" then I suggets a house rule disallowing fighters from launching into base contact with enemy fighters?

 

[Triggy]

I agree that the F arc and LOS work better the way you said, and that is probably what was intended. But it is not what is written... so I guess it's up to your group to play either RAW or interpret the rules more sensiblly.

The rules are quite clear about dogfights, though. If a fighter is in base contact with another, then they are considered to be in a dogfight. So if you launch a fighter into base contact (by whatever means) then it is in a dogfight at the start of the next turn, and neither it nor the enemy can move away. If you want to remove this "tactical option" then I suggets a house rule disallowing fighters from launching into base contact with enemy fighters?

I think this is not only the most sensible way but also the closest to the rules as written that you're going to get (don't forget just because one bit of text says "anywhere" it doesn't negate the other standard rules such as weapons needing to be in arc.

 

[Burger]

I think this is not only the most sensible way but also the closest to the rules as written that you're going to get (don't forget just because one bit of text says "anywhere" it doesn't negate the other standard rules such as weapons needing to be in arc.

Ah yes. And I'm sure the "anywhere" is a legacy from the days that the tube was T arc. But standard rules can be negated with e-mines, you can hit enemies that are out of arc, range and LOS with them...

To fire, you have to pick a target point that is in arc, range and LOS. But the energy mine rules state that all targets within 3" of the target point are attacked, no matter whether they are in arc or LOS of the original ship.

So applying the same to launching tubes... you pick a target point that is within your F arc, range and LOS. Then, according to the launch tubes text, you can place your fighters anywhere within 30" of your ship -- unlike e-mines, they don't have to be centered around the target point at all!

All RAW of course... common sense dictates that anyone who really tried to do this in a game would get a slap!

 

[cadno ap annwn]

I have to say I treat the tubes as a weapon as it says you can not use any other weapon if you fire them. So usually as I've played I blast them off somewhere where they can be ready to engage in the following turn as it states in the rules that they can not perform any other action until them.

My advice (and remember I'm not fantastic at this game lol) is to fire them off to an area where you know you can take advantage of them and not directly into a combat situation. That's mainly because I read 'may not perform any action' as saying they are preparing themselves

Rich

 

[AdrianH]

The rules are quite clear about dogfights, though. If a fighter is in base contact with another, then they are considered to be in a dogfight. So if you launch a fighter into base contact (by whatever means) then it is in a dogfight at the start of the next turn, and neither it nor the enemy can move away.

That's alright for next turn, but what about the remainder of this turn? A ship may not fire its weapons at a fighter which is in a dogfight. So, if the Shadow ship uses its dispersal tube to dump its fighters right next to enemy fighters, are they now in dogfight and therefore immune to fire from enemy cruisers which have yet to shoot? Or are the Shadow fighters only in dogfight next turn, therefore are eligible targets for cruiser fire for the remainder of this turn?

And if they can be targetted, are they allowed to dodge, or is that an action and therefore forbidden because they can't take any action until next turn?

 

[cadno ap annwn]

I'm not entirely sure, but if it was me I'd assume that they can't do anything until the next turn and that includes dogfight, dodge or anything else really.

But that's just me, I suppose I'm thinking more in show style than game dynamics. In the show they shot out at high speed, took a moment to group together and then attack.

 

[No. 1 Bear]

I say fire them in the shooting phase with all normal restrictions. In the F arc as the weapon is mounted in that arc. I know its says anywhere but i feel that that is overrided by the weapon mounting Fore.

Moreover i feel they should be placed when that weapon is fired.

I also assume they follow all the normal rules as such if they end in contact with a fighter they don't dogfight as that phase is over. So could be targetted.

Plus they should surely be allowed to dodge as its there trait like shields etc.

But just come to an agreement with your mate and play it that way. And K.I.S.S.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I would say that such fighters are in dogfight - the dogfighting rules specifically state that fighters are in dogfight once they've moved into contact with an enemy flight. This would mean that both the Shadow and enemy fighters could not be fired upon, nor could either set of fighters move away from each other.

Note that this isn't to say that the fighters roll their dogfight attacks against each other immediately - this happens when the fighters make their attacks (which happens before the launching ship could have fired the fighters, and so won't happen until the following turn).

 

[Burger]

The rules are quite clear about dogfights, though. If a fighter is in base contact with another, then they are considered to be in a dogfight. So if you launch a fighter into base contact (by whatever means) then it is in a dogfight at the start of the next turn, and neither it nor the enemy can move away.

That's alright for next turn, but what about the remainder of this turn? A ship may not fire its weapons at a fighter which is in a dogfight. So, if the Shadow ship uses its dispersal tube to dump its fighters right next to enemy fighters, are they now in dogfight and therefore immune to fire from enemy cruisers which have yet to shoot? Or are the Shadow fighters only in dogfight next turn, therefore are eligible targets for cruiser fire for the remainder of this turn?

And if they can be targetted, are they allowed to dodge, or is that an action and therefore forbidden because they can't take any action until next turn?

Ah, thats where the launching them n the end phase comes in useful... avoids the problem :lol: