Shadowfighters: should shields work against AF?

[Locutus9956]

Am I the only one thinking shields is a bit weird for Shadows, anyway? They never use anything shield-like that I noticed on screen...

As far as I know the shields trait is used to represent not shields as such but shadow ships abilit to abosrb a certain amount of damage without effect.

In B5 Wars they had 'energy difusers' that soaked up damage and bled the energy off over time (that is in fact what the 'tentacles' are) it worked rather well and felt very true to their seeming unstopability on screen unless they got alot of fire foccussed on them.

 

[inq101]

B52 was the only bomber I can remember on the spot (except WW2 ones).

 

[Da Boss]

Of course unlike the other "bombers" in the game they have to charge in close enough to be short at by point defense! Not sure thats what a B52 stylee bomber should be doing

Its not a fighter bomber either cos its against other fighters

its not a fighter - see above

so what is it - A Target drone - maybe the Shadows used it for towing garbage (or big bombs)

 

[Locutus9956]

so what is it - A Target drone - maybe the Shadows used it for towing garbage (or big bombs)

They do Go watch War Without End again....

 

[Lord David the Denied]

As far as I know the shields trait is used to represent not shields as such but shadow ships abilit to abosrb a certain amount of damage without effect.

In B5 Wars they had 'energy difusers' that soaked up damage and bled the energy off over time (that is in fact what the 'tentacles' are) it worked rather well and felt very true to their seeming unstopability on screen unless they got alot of fire foccussed on them.

I'd rather see a rule like that than shields. The Abbai have shields, but agian the shields trait we have seems more like Star Trek stuff than the gravimetric shields the Abbai are described as having...

 

[Da Boss]

so what is it - A Target drone - maybe the Shadows used it for towing garbage (or big bombs)

They do Go watch War Without End again....

yeah I know thats why I said it :wink:

 

[inq101]

There bombers invented before anyone thought about AA fire or fighters.

 

[Target]

Am I the only one thinking shields is a bit weird for Shadows, anyway? They never use anything shield-like that I noticed on screen...

all fighters are faster ships except according to the rules. Star furies zoom past white stars all the time in the show and every other fighter.
Some shadows are quicker than their fighters for some strange reason as well according to the rules and th e big are same speed.
Fighters work so better when they are way faster.
Isn't the point of fighters that they are faster than ships.
One issue i still have with 2 ed.
A little one on the scale of things compared to crap shadow fighters & their ability to really hurt your fleet :twisted:
Luckly i don't play shadows.
Looks like too bad if you do cause im going to still kick your ass till the rule changes.
Muhahahaha not really pleased about that but could be worse you could have a Fireraptor.

 

[Misiolak]

Sorry to repeat what I wrote in the other topic:

One can find 100 reasons why shadow fighters are what they are. But if you don't want to change them, why keep them 2flight per wing? And if you want them to be 2/wing, you have to make them better, so that they are more balanced... That is why people suggest changes.
If you want them 2/wing AND stay as they are, you simply want them to be too week, or too few in competitive enviroment, such as this game.

 

[Da Boss]

There bombers invented before anyone thought about AA fire or fighters.

The Vorlons thought about it and put it on every single one of their ships and fighters!?

Also I think its very unlikely that in millions of years none of the First Ones came up with a usable / different / workable fighter design - I know the Shadows sleep alot but still.............

 

[jimmor]

A question came into my mind - if fighters shields work only against main weapon - what about shadow fighters working as interceptors? Shouldn't they be able to servive 1s (perheaps on some 4+ roll to keep things simple)?

 

[Da Boss]

Sorry to repeat what I wrote in the other topic:

One can find 100 reasons why shadow fighters are what they are. But if you don't want to change them, why keep them 2flight per wing? And if you want them to be 2/wing, you have to make them better, so that they are more balanced... That is why people suggest changes.
If you want them 2/wing AND stay as they are, you simply want them to be too week, or too few in competitive enviroment, such as this game.

Yep all very true- but sadly we seem to be hitting our heads against a brick wall

 

[Burger]

A question came into my mind - if fighters shields work only against main weapon - what about shadow fighters working as interceptors? Shouldn't they be able to servive 1s (perheaps on some 4+ roll to keep things simple)?

No, a fighter acting as an interceptor who rolls a 1 is automatically destroyed. It doesn't take a "hit", therefore the shields don't come into effect.

 

[Sulfurdown]

A question came into my mind - if fighters shields work only against main weapon - what about shadow fighters working as interceptors? Shouldn't they be able to servive 1s (perheaps on some 4+ roll to keep things simple)?

It doesn't because the Fighter-As-Interceptor rules operate on a different perspective then main guns. Changing it opens a lot of potential squirreled up situations. It honestly seems like adding the Shields to the Fighter, while cool in my book, creates a tremendous amount of confusion and perceived balance issues. A lot of rules are built to streamline fighters and so are written with the intention that Shields not function.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The other problem is that you're ignoring that shields already work in dogfights. As part of the dogfight score. Where they belong.

So are they also taken into account in the Hull score versus anti-fighter?
If so then why are they not taken into account as part of the hull score versus standard ship weapons? Wouldn't it be better to put the hull to 6 and remove the shields?

No, it isn't, which is why I'm arguing for AF to do a point of damage and not be an exception to shields. If I thought that shields were already taken into account in the hull value, I wouldn't be arguing for that now would I?
As the rules stand at the moment though, it would be better if they just scrapped the shields and gave it hull 6. Hull 6 is useful on a fighter, shields are not.

As for the dogfight argument, my point is that the mechanics work superbly with the idea that the Shadow fighter is dogfight -1, with a +1 for the shields, giving a total of +0. Whether or not the final figure of +0 is enough to represent their on screen capabilities is a completely separate issue - if it's not, make them +1 (+0 base, +1 for the shields). From what I have fresh in my mind for them (early season 2), I would say that they seem to be either equal or slightly better overall than the Frazi. The Frazi is +0, so that would make the Shadow fighter +0 or +1.

 

[inq101]

Random thought, what do people think.
Have AF still work as it is, but the shields let the shadow fighter survive long enough to shoot before it dies.

 

[locarno24]

No, a fighter acting as an interceptor who rolls a 1 is automatically destroyed. It doesn't take a "hit", therefore the shields don't come into effect.

Dogfight is the same - and automatic 'kill' - and kind of makes sense to me; you'll keep dogfighting till one side is dead....

Anti-fighter protection seems a reasonable house rule.

 

[Shadow Queen]

How advanced are Shadow ships, Scouts, Stalkers and Fighters?

they are suposed to be thousands of years so they should be able to do somthing about AA fire and Dogfighting

 

[Da Boss]

not according to Matt - they don't think its important enough to even notice................too busy having a cat nap (Gotta love the Shadows - attributes of both Spider and Cats tow of my fav creatures - just a pity not more shark like - Legion of Everblight fulfills that need however ).

Of course the Vorlons being uptight and nosy noticed and made sure they could deal with the pesky fighters that everyone uses now (well except the Drakh and thats only cos the Shadows told them there is no need to wory about fighters esp Vorlon ones with precise beams - how could that possibily hurt them) and apparently no one even thought about over the last million years - maybe the First Ones died out /left cos they were not too bright got ran over whilst staring at their navels or something

 

[inq101]

The Shadows (and the rest of the First Ones) are advanced but not advancing. Their technology is stagnating compared to the younger races.