Shadow Omega's
- Thread starter skavendan
- Start date
skavendan said:No lol
This is why I don't believe in averages, far too often a beam is 10+ hits I've had a 4AD beam do 17 hits several times. That's nothing like the averages say it should be! so ner
your welcome to keep trying to change my mind though
Yes but as often as they score big they score massively low
so your 6 dice beam can splutter and get 1 or 2 hits - played Shadows recently and the beam got 2,2, 1 and 4 ............
or your 2 dice beam can get 10 hits - its very random but you can't say it always scores big now can you? If yes - can I use your dice :wink:
Da Boss said:skavendan said:No lol
This is why I don't believe in averages, far too often a beam is 10+ hits I've had a 4AD beam do 17 hits several times. That's nothing like the averages say it should be! so ner
your welcome to keep trying to change my mind though
Yes but as often as they score big they score massively low
so your 6 dice beam can splutter and get 1 or 2 hits - played Shadows recently and the beam got 2,2, 1 and 4 ............
or your 2 dice beam can get 10 hits - its very random but you can't say it always scores big now can you? If yes - can I use your dice :wink:
haha lets say the shadow omega scores low then and the fire de dar scores big ok? lol
Hmm really need to say they both do about the same to try and get a meaningful comparison? Same guns firing at each other. :?:
Anyway my point is that the Shadow Omega is not weaker than the Fire Raptor for reasons I pointed out above and you yourself mentioned - AJP engine for one, regen for another, flight computer etc etc. Escpecially when you consider it as part of a fleet - thats not to say that it could not do with a small upgrade - probably as Ripple suggests F arc for its beam...........or make it standard Warlock beam - as it was the forerunner?
The Fire Raptor as Ripple rightly pointed out can probably do some damage to one ship, as it only has F arc guns.
Anyway my point is that the Shadow Omega is not weaker than the Fire Raptor for reasons I pointed out above and you yourself mentioned - AJP engine for one, regen for another, flight computer etc etc. Escpecially when you consider it as part of a fleet - thats not to say that it could not do with a small upgrade - probably as Ripple suggests F arc for its beam...........or make it standard Warlock beam - as it was the forerunner?
The Fire Raptor as Ripple rightly pointed out can probably do some damage to one ship, as it only has F arc guns.
Yeah I just find it very weird the hole fleet is fairly well designed till you get to that ship.
It's range doesn't compared with the rest and lumbering makes it hard to B arc things....
All in all on average 2 hunters is better than it or in a big game just take the Nemisis Wicked ship that is fast not lumbering long range guns.
It's range doesn't compared with the rest and lumbering makes it hard to B arc things....
All in all on average 2 hunters is better than it or in a big game just take the Nemisis Wicked ship that is fast not lumbering long range guns.
my friends used to be afraid of the omega x. I used to be able to get them so paranoid with just the the hint that I MIGHT have one sitting in hyperspace that they would ignore me and try to annhilate each other ~sigh~ I miss having this ship in my EA fleet and having it be a badass.
While I do find the comparisons between the Fireraptor and Shadow Omega interesting, the fact that we are comparing two of the weakest war level choices does not really mean that either is a good choice (even if better than the other) since both really need some improvements to get them up to par with a Warlock or G'vhran (or even an Octurius or Bin'Tak for that matter).
Sadly the debate wasn't really about the 'raptor or the Shadow Omega... it was about how to compare them.
Triggy did a really nice job previously with his point value comparison of all ships of the same pl. It gave us a reference on which were strong vs weak. We didn't necessarily agree on all points, but it gave us a starting point.
What was under debate here is what is the starting point for debating the Shadow Omega. Is the self repair worth much? How much do you lose being only range 18? Compare it to the Juyaca or the Octurian maybe... then you can talk about what it needs.
to skavendan
I agree that the 6 hits number wont come up as standard that often, but double is actually fairly rare, and out outright misses need to taken into account. I almost never use real averages, but I also don't go much over a 25% boost either.
Ripple
Triggy did a really nice job previously with his point value comparison of all ships of the same pl. It gave us a reference on which were strong vs weak. We didn't necessarily agree on all points, but it gave us a starting point.
What was under debate here is what is the starting point for debating the Shadow Omega. Is the self repair worth much? How much do you lose being only range 18? Compare it to the Juyaca or the Octurian maybe... then you can talk about what it needs.
to skavendan
I agree that the 6 hits number wont come up as standard that often, but double is actually fairly rare, and out outright misses need to taken into account. I almost never use real averages, but I also don't go much over a 25% boost either.
Ripple
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Taran said:Triggy said:Indeed, 24 White Stars against 6 Shadow Omegas. Just think of all those initiative sinks
As I recalled the discussion about the Shadow-Omega/Omega-X fleet, they specifically mentioned that Ivanova would be outnumbered. Sufficiently so that they were sending her instead of their normal fleet because they were afraid they'd lose all of their Earth ships (and they had gathered quite a few at that point.
But, no worries. I'm watching it again today, so I'll report back in whether I'm right or wrong.
Just dug out the script, there is no mention in there of the WS fleet being outnumbered, the script mentions that there are supposed to be a _lot_ of ships lying in wait.
The reason the WS fleet is sent is because they can get there before the EA ships, are the most advanced ships the AoL has, and the fact that they need to protect the Earth ships as the Clark forces are likely to focus on destroying those first so the liberating fleet has no EA ships left to help portray Clark's desired image of it being another alien invasion.
LBH
I really do need to get round to making my 2nd ed. list - I haven't had the chance to overhaul my system but it is updated to some degree (and is slightly simpler therefore won't take as much time!)Ripple said:
As a taster, using this system, a Fireraptor is worth 11.1346 and a Shadow Omega 14.7334 (both based on an average War PL ship being worth 16.000 and a Battle PL ship being worth 8.000). These numbers agree that both are below par War PL ships but the Fireraptor is massively so. The Fireraptor's problem in my opinion is that it simply isn't tough enough for a ship that needs to get close before it is useful.
BTW, randomness in a weapon makes it less valuable as you can't rely on it so much. A beam's real strength is its ability to ignore Hull 6 and Interceptors (and on those with Precise to cause criticals).
Greg Smith
Mongoose
lastbesthope said:
Ivanova says something about the number of enemy while lying on her death bed.
dag'karlove
Mongoose
Taran said:
Of Course they Do in the original and after i watch it tonight Ill give you the exact time in teh movie. I refuse to own the enhanced ones as I think They are Shite.
lastbesthope
Mongoose
Greg Smith said:
The script pegs her as saying there were "more of them than us", but she may have been including the enemy fighters, or it's a script CGI non match.
THe script also has her and Marcus escaping from the crippled WS in a lifepod which I don't remember from that episode.
LBH
Greg Smith
Mongoose
I'm sure she says something of the kind. There was no escape pod in the episode though.
