Shadow Fighter's shields: totally useless, after all!

[Burger]

It is well known by now that the Shadow Fighter's shields are uselesss in dogfights and against AF fire. However I've just read that they are also useless against ship's weapons!

A flight may be attacked in the same way as a ship. Any successful hit that equals or exceeds a flight’s Hull score will automatically destroy it, but the flight may use any Dodge trait it possesses as normal

Any hits automatically destroys the flight... shields would not help here. So... what do a Shadow fighter's shields actually do???

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I suspect that rule hasn't been updated since 1st edition, when there were no shields...

 

[Burger]

Yeah, most likely. But it is yet another final nail in the Shadow Fighter's coffin. How many final nails is that now...

 

[Da Boss]

My poor baby Shadows...........

does that make any difference to interceptors?

 

[Burger]

Well according to that rule as written, interceptors on a fighter can't actually do anything. You can assign them to a fighter using the guardian arrays of a Centauri escort, but they don't work!

 

[Greg Smith]

But the shield rule says:

The first Shields score indicates how many hits the shield can absorb before damage is inflicted upon the ship.

So the hit is 'absorbed' and does not reach the ship.

By the same token, shields and interceptors will not work on regular ships:

For every Attack Dice that equals or beats the Hull score, a hit has been scored. A roll of a 6 is always considered to be a success, while a roll
of a 1 is always a miss. For every successful hit, roll 1D6 {on the Attack Table}

By their nature, special traits are exceptions to the normal rules, and every single possible exception isn't listed.

 

[Da Boss]

Does that mean shields work against Comms Disruptors as they block hits not damage? And does a comms disruptor hit knock down a shield?

 

[KennyBoy]

This is another rule that is a bit odd when put into 'real world' logic... If a Shadow fighters shield doesn't apply to AF fire, should ships attempt to get within 2" of any ships with a shield score and use its AF guns against them too!!! :wink:

 

[Stonehorse]

But the shield rule says:

The first Shields score indicates how many hits the shield can absorb before damage is inflicted upon the ship.

So the hit is 'absorbed' and does not reach the ship.

By the same token, shields and interceptors will not work on regular ships:

For every Attack Dice that equals or beats the Hull score, a hit has been scored. A roll of a 6 is always considered to be a success, while a roll
of a 1 is always a miss. For every successful hit, roll 1D6 {on the Attack Table}

By their nature, special traits are exceptions to the normal rules, and every single possible exception isn't listed.

And by that same logic, Shields should work against AAF and AF.

The example Burger has brought up uses the same words as AAF and AF use. Automatically destroy... it would seem strange to have in one case the Shields absorb the hit, but in the other not absorb the hit.

That I think would be a solution to the Shadow Fighters.

 

[Greg Smith]

And by that same logic, Shields should work against AAF and AF.

The example Burger has brought up uses the same words as AAF and AF use. Automatically destroy... it would seem strange to have in one case the Shields absorb the hit, but in the other not absorb the hit.

Actually the wording is different. Regular weapons inflict a hit which can be dodged, intercepted and absorbed by shields (although it doesn't explicitly mention the last two). AF (which isn't a weapon) automatically destoys. And the AF wording specifically excludes traits.

 

[Stonehorse]

And by that same logic, Shields should work against AAF and AF.

The example Burger has brought up uses the same words as AAF and AF use. Automatically destroy... it would seem strange to have in one case the Shields absorb the hit, but in the other not absorb the hit.

Actually the wording is different. Regular weapons inflict a hit which can be dodged, intercepted and absorbed by shields (although it doesn't explicitly mention the last two). AF (which isn't a weapon) automatically destoys. And the AF wording specifically excludes traits.

Just checked, and we must have different books. Mine says that only Dodge trait is ignored.

So a HIT is different to automatically destoys, silly me I thought that in order to automatically destoy something you had to hit it first. :roll:

The wording may be slightly different, but which gaming company can claim to have products that don't suffer from bad wording? It's rather about what is being implied by the rules.

 

[MongooseMatt]

The wording may be slightly different, but which gaming company can claim to have products that don't suffer from bad wording? It's rather about what is being implied by the rules.

There is another factor. You cannot list every exception and combination in a rulebook, even on a game as relatively simple as CTA - it would end up doubling the size of the book, and destroy any clarity within the presentation of the rules.

So, as a games designer, you leave out what you feel is 'obvious'. Of course, everyone is different in how they read and think, which is why we have the Rulesmasters

However, in this case, the thinking goes something like this;

Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by a weapon, what is expected to happen?

I have to hold my hands up and say I did not expect anyone would come to the conclusion that the Shield trait on them is useless, redundant and should be ignored. No, my thinking was that players would think it absorbs a hit.

Still, mea culpa.

 

[H]

would make them a lot more effective (and scary) if you let the shields work on Af fire as well. . . go on.. you know it makes sense!

 

[Greg Smith]

Just checked, and we must have different books. Mine says that only Dodge trait is ignored.

Page 28: "It should be noted that AF and AAF traits are not counted as weapons ..., nor will the be affected by traits on fighters, such as Stealth."

So a HIT is different to automatically destoys, silly me I thought that in order to automatically destoy something you had to hit it first. :roll:

In ACTA terminology a HIT is something that happens when an AD is rolled and equal or exceeds the Hull of a ship. A HIT can be negated before it becomes damage (that is damage in the general sense and not Damage and Crew loss) by Dodge, Interceptors or Shields.

 

[Greg Smith]

Well according to that rule as written, interceptors on a fighter can't actually do anything. You can assign them to a fighter using the guardian arrays of a Centauri escort, but they don't work!

If you roll succesfully with interceptors "the hit is completely negated and ignored" (page 18). Which sounds to me like the hit on the fighter will be stopped and the fighter saved.

 

[Da Boss]

Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by a weapon, what is expected to happen?

I have to hold my hands up and say I did not expect anyone would come to the conclusion that the Shield trait on them is useless, redundant and should be ignored. No, my thinking was that players would think it absorbs a hit.
Still, mea culpa.

Well in fairness it is a bit strange that a shadow fighters shield does not therefore protect it against Antifghter fire - in fact shouldn't it be more effective if it can deflect the sheer power of ship main weapons. Maybe they should just ignore AF fire :shock:

 

[Burger]

Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by a weapon, what is expected to happen?

As Da Boss said... Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by anti-fighter fire, what is expected to happen............

Using intuition often leads to incorrect rules interpretation.

 

[MongooseMatt]

Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by a weapon, what is expected to happen?

As Da Boss said... Shadow Fighters have Shields. Shields protect against enemy fire. If a Shadow Fighter gets hit by anti-fighter fire, what is expected to happen............

Using intuition often leads to incorrect rules interpretation.

You know, I am not actually against that interpretation. . . It would need a special rule because, as Greg pointed out, traits are specifically not weapons.

 

[Da Boss]

sounds good - or just a line in the FAQ / your annual book thingy

searches for a hopeful emote!!!

 

[H]

I am sure a quick rulesmaster, and an addition to the errata saying
Shields work against AF would cover it easily enough.
plus word of mouth will spread quickly that shadow fighters just got a bit meaner ;-)