sell me on dream realms and cults of yk

[Tal]

Can someone give me a short review of these products. I read the blurb and the previews and search this forum for more info but didn't find much to let me know what is in them other than the blurb. How much repeat info is there in dream realms? How many cults are there in the Cults book?
Out of the two, I'm more drawn to Dream Realms but am a little cautious of buying a book that thin for that price without looking through it first. But am curious about the Cults book. I wish I had a good LGS nearbye that carried them.
Anything else that might sell me on the books?

 

[tarkhan bey]

Hi Tal, I am not particularly good at writing reviews but I have purchased both these books and found them to have been a worthwhile investment.

Dream Realms is not the thickest of books for the money but it has lots of good stuff inside.

The first chapter is "Adventures in Dreams".(7 pages)
It contains a new sorcerous skill called Dreamcrafting. This is the chaotic counterpart to the Lawful Dreamthieves. There is crunch and an opposed table for the manipulation of dreams and some good stuff on how things work in the dream realms.

The second chapter is "The Seven Dream Realms"(16 Pages)
This contains a lot of stuff that has been printed before. I imagine that it is only reprinted for the sake of completeness. I haven't really had time to totally go through this chapter for a number of reasons but at least some of it appears to be a cut and paste job.

The third chapter is "The Dream Market"(5 Pages)
All new stuff on finding the Dream Market and the price of dreams. Some interesting stuff on how to become a Dreamthief as well.

The fourth chapter is "The Thousand Year Dream"(15 pages)
Melniboneans and dream couches. Experiencing the dream fluff and crunch for the visited worlds including lotsa new critters and an advanced firearms table. Suggestions for how to use firearms in Eternal Champion games without them taking over.
New critters are-Kakatanawa, Pukawatchi, Cowardly Serpents, Kenabik, Uria Ne Barbarians, Mittelmarch Panther, Off Moo and Troogs.

The fifth chapter is "A Vengeance Long Dreamt Of"(25 pages)
A scenario-utilising many of the concepts previously discussed in the other chapters. Its good and i'm looking forward to running it with my group. Includes fully statted NPC's

The sixth chapter is "Dream Travellers and Other Personalities"(12 Pages)
Exactly what the name suggests. Character fully statted out and described are, Alnec Kreb, Ayanawatta, Chamog Borm, Gho Faazi, Jhary-A -Conel and Whiskers(reprint), Johannes Klosterheim 8) (my favourite-worth the price alone AFAIC), Manag Iss, Oona, Oone, Varadia and White Crow.

The seventh chapter is "Tanelorn"(12 pages)
Description of city with decent map(shocker). Notables and districts in detail as well as how to get there , in dreams or otherwise.

All in all I would give this a 4 out of 5 due to some previously available material in reprint.

Hope this helps.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Cults of the Young Kingdoms

Although I was initially sceptical about whether to buy this book, I am happy to say that it is an excellent read.

Chapter 1) Law and Chaos-The Eternal Struggle(5 pages)

All background fluff,a very interesting insight into a sometimes slightly different view of the ongoing struggle.

Chapter 2) The Elementals-Struggle for the Shape of the Earth.(4 pages)

More background and fluff.

Chapter 3) The Powers of Growth-The Lords of Nature(2Pages)

Background and fluff on the Plant and Beast Lords.This is disappointing in that there could have been lots more about this. Still, the Bright Shadows book contains several Beast Lords.

Chapter 4) Cult Nomenclature(11 Pages)

This is crunchy stuff which includes combined and expanded tables of Cult Gifts and Compulsions.

Chapter 5) Cults of Chaos(48 pages)

Crunch-Progressing through the cults, gifts, compulsions, Cult Runes, Skills and Legendary abilities.
Fluff-Several pages describing the influence of Chaos and how the cults work in the YK. Much emphasis on Pan Tang which is one of the few
places where it is seen openly and the only place where there is anything like a "Church of Chaos". There is a detailed description of a Temple of Ecstatic Indulgence in Immryr as well(no map) known as the House of Indolent Gratification.
There are different aspects and sects within many of the cults each with differing duties and attitudes.
Cults covered are, Arioch, the Azure Sisterhood, The Blood Brothers, The Death Bringers, Ectstatic Indulgence, Hwarma' gaal-the city founder cult of Pan Tang, an interesting rework of the cult of Narjhan, The Silent Watchers, The Sword Rulers and the Whisperers.
Each cult contains a little fluff on its politics, beliefs, worshippers and retribution for those who betray it.
There are also Stat blocks for Sea Serpents and Mermen(reprinted)

Chapter 6) Cults of Law(24 pages)

Similarly set up to the cults of Chaos.
The Cults are of Arkyn, Donblas, Miggea,Tovik and Pozz-man-Llyr.

Chapter 7) Cults of the Elements(19 pages)

As above. The four Elemental rulers plus rules for using Misha and Graoll in play. Also includes the "Brotherhood of the Red Redemption" led by an aspect of Johannes Klosterheim. 8)

Chapter 8 ) Ancestor and Personality cults(20 pages)

Set out as previously, the Ancestor Cults of Oin and Yu, The Cult of Aubec, The Cult of Terhali and the Spell Thieves of Cran Liret.

Chapter 9) Societies and Secrets(13 pages)

The Mereghn and the Sorceror Adventurers of Quarzhasaat.
Includes a new profession-The Assassin.

Chapter 10) Grand Passions(3 Pages)

Pacts of Love and Hate. I think these may be a reprint from an old S&P article.

I would give this 4.5 out of 5. Theres a lot of "wee gems" of information and ideas hidden throughout this book. Unfortunately there is a little bit of rehash as well though I think only the final chapter vis possibly cut n'paste.

 

[Loz]

Pacts of Love and Hate. I think these may be a reprint from an old S&P article.

I would give this 4.5 out of 5. Theres a lot of "wee gems" of information and ideas hidden throughout this book. Unfortunately there is a little bit of rehash as well though I think only the final chapter vis possibly cut n'paste.

It was written specifically for Cults of the YK. It was also used in S&P as a taster of what the book contained.

 

[tarkhan bey]

AaaaH, I see.
Then please allow me to upgrade this book to a 4.75 out of 5.

 

[Tal]

Tarkhan Bey,
Thanks alot, you gave me just what I was looking for. Looks like I'll be ordering both.

 

[tarkhan bey]

No problem Tal, one of the things that I like best is that it should be fairly easy, using the information within CotYK to do cults of your own.
Thats lucky, as there are a few omissions. The cults of Shalod, Balo and Vezhan are conspicuous by their absence.
In a previous post, Loz reckoned that Shalod would be more appropriate in a Corum book. However, IIRC the Blood Brothers cult of Duke Teer probably belongs in that book as well.
It would be pretty easy to cobble together cults for the "Unchanging Nine" as described in Elric and Stormbringer 5ed. In fact, as wife and baby daughter have just gone swimming, I may atempt one of them this afternoon.

 

[Loz]

The reason I included Teer was because there's a reasonable amount of information given on him in the Corum saga. Shalod and Vezhan, OTOH are merely names mentioned (although Vezhan is seen by Rackhir) and there was nothing really strong enough to create a cult around.

Balo was an absolutely deliberate omission. He comes and goes between Law and Chaos as he sees fit, but even Elric says that Balo is a rarity - to quote:

'But not even the Lords of the Higher Worlds can understand the motives of Balo the Jester. It is said that he is the only one allowed to move between the Realms of Chaos and Law at will, though I have never heard of him coming to the Realm of Earth before. Neither, for that matter, have I ever heard him credited with such acts of destruction as that which we've witnessed. It is a puzzle to me - one which would no doubt please him if he knew.'

The Singing Citadel

Based on this, I just could not see Balo being worshipped in any shape of form as he seems to be a secret of the Lords of the Higher Planes and not a god in his own right. I also have to confess to some boredom with Balo being overused in the past, and as an excuse for wanton cruelty and bad puns! A Cosmic Jester cult always seems to attract the wrong sort of player and ends-up detracting from the game rather than adding to it.

But that's my own prejudice. By all means create a Balo cult for your own games if you wish!

 

[tarkhan bey]

I suppose that, technically, the book is called Cults of the Young Kingdoms. I agree whole heartedly that Balo would probably not have a cult as such.
That kind of shoots down my argument. If only the book had been called Divine Beings of the Young Kingdoms or something like that.
Further on the subject of Vezhan and Shalod though. You did put some information in the background fluff about both these entities and it just seemed odd to me that having done so, you didn't expand on them.
I had often wondered if I had imagined the existence of Shalod as a Law Lord named in the Corum stories, then finally you revealed him. Even Corum by Darcsyde missed this! :roll:
I know its only a little niggle, and in no way spoils the book but it's one of those little things that is personal to me.

 

[tarkhan bey]

Mind you, including Pozz Man Llyr made up for it.

 

[Loz]

Further on the subject of Vezhan and Shalod though. You did put some information in the background fluff about both these entities and it just seemed odd to me that having done so, you didn't expand on them.

Shalod gets mentioned precisely once, in the whole Corum saga, as the Law Lord who fled the realm Xiombarg conquered; and that's it. Now, in many cases, the various lords of the higher realms are just mentioned in passing, but usually there's something you can easily extrapolate and build on. And, of course, there are space issues as well. Its a full enough book as it is!

 

[tarkhan bey]

So, it was really down to space in the book then?

I mean, Shalod may only be mentioned once in the entire canon but you have invented an entire cult for a Pan Tangian city founder(and very good as well). :roll: :lol:
Likewise, I don't think that Tovik exists in canon either. I had never heard of him prior to the Elric Rpg by Chaosium.
Loz, man, it had to be a space issue. I just don't buy the fact that you didn't use him because he was only mentioned once, in passing. :?
There are host of options that he could have represented. The "Unchanging Nine" could have been plundered mercilessly for ideas. I was previously using him as Tovik under a different name but that no longer seems appropriate.
Arkyn, Tovik and he exit the YK on a Golden boat. Pozz Man LLyr pilots a golden boat. Could Pozz Man LLyr be the Tarkeshite name for the cult of "Shalod the Boatman".
THe fluff suggests that he wrote the book of Law in Vilmir. Is it possible that he has also apprenticed under Donblas as well?. Could there be a cult of "Shalod the Lawgiver"(perhaps unique in that region)?

Finally, "its a full enough book as it is".

Sorry mate, we are a demanding readership-your books can never be full enough.

 

[Loz]

It came down to not detailing Shalod for the following reasons.

1. I wanted to leave something for Corum specifically.

2. Shalod's just a name and I wasn't grabbed by him in the same way Miggea grabbed me. If something grabs me then the ideas flow - and there's a ton of grabbing and idea-flowing in Cults, so I wasn't going to strain myself over Shalod when I had a lot of other ideas competing for time and attention.

3. Space; although it was a minor consideration. Had I been struggling for ideas or short on cults to detail, then I may have turned my attention to Shalod. But I didn't need to.

Going back and looking at the reference to Shalod in the Queen of the Swords it strikes me that I could detail him as the Coward Lord of Law; He Who Fell to the Blades and ran, relinquishing his kingdom to an easy victory and dooming his armies to suffer under the hands of Xiombarg. A pariah Lord, Shalod roams the multiverse attempting to evade the disaster his cowardice caused. Miggea scorns him; the other Lords of Law have turned their backs on him. Shalod skulks in the shadows now, self-pitying, scheming, but stultified by cowardice.

Hmmm... I could build a cult around this, you know, but I'd really like to see someone else do it.

So how about an unofficial competition, open to all? Design Shalod's cult, using the above paragraph as the starting background. Use the format from 'Cults of the Young Kingdoms' as the framework but feel free to go beyond it. I'd really like to see some myths that can be made to enforce behaviours as found in 'Guilds, Factions and Cults', too.

Don't post your offerings here; PM me or, if you have my email address, email me (or PM me for it). From the entries I'll select the one I like best and I'll talk to Charlie Law about getting it into S&P.

How does that sound?

 

[havercake lad]

Any deadline Loz ?

 

[Loz]

Say end of November, start of December? No hard and fast deadline really.